Interview 1356 - Ray Vahey Presents BitChute

04/23/201833 Comments

In this week's edition of the Social Media Alternatives series we discuss with Ray Vahey.

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  1. anonymint says:

    Regarding BitChute’s use of a P2P torrent algorithm for (video) data distribution, I wrote a comment recently responding to a related issue with Steem’s Dtube.

    Although serving data P2P does increase censorship resistance as compared to centralized media companies, it may actually have less decentralization than a decentralized set of dedicated servers, because the diversity of the users’ ISPs is the limiting factor in some scenarios.

    Also P2P isn’t practical from mobile phones. The Internet is not physically a mesh network. Analogous to it being inefficient to run a separate water main directly from the pumping station to each household, the Internet also employs a multifurcating hub-and-spoke network topology.

    Thus most consumer Internet connections are asymmetric with a fraction of the upload bandwidth compared to the download bandwidth. In fact, I had a technical and economics argument with the Bittorrent design team back in 2006, because I argue their tit-for-tat algorithm should be modified to insure symmetric bandwidth use because otherwise ISPs that given more generous upload bandwidth would be carrying the load for ISPs that don’t. They ignored me because they realize that Bittorrent is essentially a theft paradigm and incongruent with the physics of electromagnetic transmission and network topology. I wrote recently that we can’t give away for free what isn’t free otherwise we create a power vacuum. The power vacuum that torrents are creating is the net neutrality politics.

    Also P2P requires STUN/TURN protocols to try to punch a hole through the NAT layers that normally prevent a client Internet connection from being server. This often fails. Thus P2P is buggy and unreliable.

    The solution is a decentralized ledger for logging data with decentralized, diverse dedicated servers for serving data.

    Apologies to rain on his parade, but I’d be remiss not to share what I know.

    • I Shot Santa says:

      Thank you for helping me realize just how ignorant I am on tech. JimBob who didn’t really understand a word of what he just read, but he’s okay with that.

    • anonymint says:

      I found the archive (c.f. >a href=’’>also) of that discussion with the BitTorrent developers which actually occurred in 2008, not 2006.

    • I whole heartedly agree! There is a huge problem with up/down ratios regarding torrents, etc.

      Also, BitChute, D-Tube, etc may be rigged or may be authentic efforts but they fail so terribly on so many levels under the false pretense of hope or as legit alternative options.

      BitChute needs to offer better download options and/or legit torrents that actually work. I have had 18 BitChute torrents active since November, and only one completed and another is stuck at 73% while the others haven’t even started.

      I’ll believe BitChute is legit when it adopts IPFS archiving tech, perhaps with foundations also in ZeroNet. I’d also like to convert my entire YouTube collection into an IPFS archive.

      IMHO, everyone that can afford it should have a refrigerator sized server in their workplace and/or home (ie. basement) or whatever that shares stuff over ZeroNet or IPFS (assuming they can work it all out) and they can be rewarded with Filecoin, Namecoin, etc to continue archiving, maintenance, expansion, etc. – rather than relying on the “Cloud” like some benevolent digital heaven. We must take back physical possession of our data from the giant corporations of “convenience” and their clouds. This may be important when the rise of A.I. becomes problematic.

      On a nitpicky note, the YouTube interface and options suck ass, but BitChute is no better. They need an option for basic, advanced, and expert, if not customized user interfaces (ie. Wikipedia preferences).

      • Also, FYI, for anyone who cares.

        Wikipedia is rigged and censored, but InfoGalactic is a fork from Wikipedia that is not censored and you can do your own wiki projects there.

        I keep the InfoGalactic articles on IPFS, ZeroNet, Mycroft A.I., etc up to date with the Wikipedia article, but with extra information. That’s not huge news. (If you have other suggestions, let me know.)

        If you like to pirate high quality movies with extras compressed well, then you might appreciate my Tigole article:

        I haven’t updated these articles (censored on Wikipedia) for ages: (only started, yet to be filled in.)
        I collect notes on these and more to eventually plug into the articles.
        I wrote articles about Pearse Redmond and Tom Secker but at their request I pulled them, not because they were curmudgeony assholes about it (which they were) but sheerly out of respect for their excellent work. After that I mostly stopped doing articles on “heroes”.

        I recently started this article on Tim Kelly and Joe Atwill’s show where I copy-paste YouTube auto-generated transcriptions:
        I started and dammit I finished (never again) human-correcting an episode’s transcription on Syria:,_Episode_047,_Proper_Transcription
        I don’t agree with everything Tim and Joe say or believe but I really do enjoy their informative show, as well as Tim’s regular interviews (which are being censored sometimes now).

        After Pizzagate I looked for a list of elite pedos online only to find none – so I started this article and lists:
        These were prominent then censored/buried in Google and now are moderate, whereas on DuckDuckGo it’s always been first page.

        Wikipedia censored my adjustments to the “truther” disambiguation and “truther movement” articles which were not very good nor accurate much less representational. I started these work-in-progress hot messes, that I will eventually clean up into proper articles (with your help?) but they are big topics:

        Non-encyclopedic projects are permitted on InfoGalactic. For example, I recently started these (in their infant stages): (I already have lists I will be adding to actually flesh this out) (I have a few screenplays I’ll be adding, as well as a bunch of premises, and partial concepts.) (This is my open-source animated short series I am working on now. I will be expanding, developing, and managing this project here because I like the wiki format.)

        Full disclosure: I am an anarcho-Marxist progressive anti-establishment truther yet most folks on InfoGalactic, so far as I know, are alt-right and/or religious. I share some of their views but not too many. One guy is abrasive as fuck but I ignore him/her. We all have in common a hatred for SJW thought police and censorship. The site was founded by alt-right author Vox Day (a pen name), someone I haven’t yet read nor know much about. Maybe I should. Some of Stephan Molyneux’s ideas are interesting even if I disagree with much if not most. Maybe he’s good for an interview. I just like the wiki, though I’ve made endless suggestions on deaf ears how they might improve the site and to make it less of a Wikipedia knock off. This is the extent of my connection to InfoGalactic. I don’t know them much less get anything from them, other than use of the wiki. = me.

        Free to join and edit.

        • mkey says:

          As always, commendable work Jason. Thanks for pointing out IPFS and ZeroNet, these exciting technologies have disappeared from my radar several times now. I’ll have to dig in a bit.

        • anonymint says:

          On a nitpicky note, the YouTube interface and options suck ass, but BitChute is no better. They need an option for basic, advanced, and expert, if not customized user interfaces (ie. Wikipedia preferences).

          With the application data open sourced, then anyone can build a better GUI on top of it, e.g. is a clone of

          Wikipedia is rigged and censored, but InfoGalactic is a fork from Wikipedia that is not censored and you can do your own wiki projects there.

          I will not invest my effort in any closed-data hosted website ever again.

          I want a Wikipedia clone with all data open source (with cryptographic hashes) on a decentralized ledger. There are no decentralized ledgers yet. Someone has to invent a distributed ledger which doesn’t become centralized. I can provide references if you doubt my claim, c.f. my recent discussion with @zoidsoft on Steem.

          If you like to pirate high quality movies

          Two wrongs don’t make it right. Stealing is basically akin to Communism. If we give away for free that which is not free to produce then we end up with economic devastation.

          Let’s not conflate free market capitalism with the power vacuum monopolies of socialism/communism aka democracy. Dig down into the linked comments and blogs for complete understanding of my point.

          Full disclosure: I am an anarcho-Marxist progressive anti-establishment truther

          Marxism has caused 50 – 100 million megadeath in the 20th century alone.

      • If BitChute used open source IPFS, there are many potentially beneficial utilities:
        – Filecoin – a IPFS integrated currency
        – Akasha Project – a IPFS social network
        – Orbit Chat – a IPFS app
        – OpenBazaar – a free market, on IPFS, using many cryptos
        – and more?

        Also, Vin Armani (review the Corbett interviews with him) is a big fan of IPFS.

  2. d.taylor says:

    Bird sounds on Rays side make comprehension of his part of the conversation
    a little foggy.

  3. generalbottlewasher says:

    The use of Youtube is easier for me. The form(format) seems to follow the function of The Corbett Reports concept in-toto. James’s creation seamlessly flows with Youtubes characteristics functions creation while simultaneously being diametrically opposed politically and philosophically. I may have said that in a poor way but I can’t agree with Ray Vahey that the comment section works well on Bit-Chute. It just doesn’t feel right. It’s off where as Youtubes on, in all aspects except in the policy and political parts of Youtubes in-toto. But the politics don’t register during my usage because it fits so comfortably in my immersion with the Corbett Report. Where as Bit-chute is a pain in navigation and interaction with the Corbet gestaltalt.
    This is my lesson for the day. Freedom I Won’t. I won’t use YouTube and the discomfort and displeasure will pass. I will miss the good old communitee and will look to a new one with determination and hope for Bit-chute to fix it up for freedoms sake!

    • generalbottlewasher says:

      P.S. the lesson for you is to understand the morphogenetic field exhibited here.
      1. The story of Freeloading Jack.
      2. P2P and blockchain protocols fixes are, just as easily, planting and killing obs.
      3. Rupert Shelldrake Phd. Is not on facebook? When the morphogenetic field works who needs facebook!
      4. Thank you Anonymint.Great suggestions at the archive.

    • Octium says:

      I don’t trust the Disqus commenting system which is now owned by Zeta Global.

      “Our Data Cloud contains billions of unique profiles and signals that seamlessly integrate with our patented AI to help marketers acquire, retain and grow customer relationships that increase revenue, build loyalty and improve marketing ROI” – Zeta Website

      Sounds like Big Evil Google like Big Data to me.

      Also, I notice that Bitchute has the guest commenting feature turned off. While that might be good for reducing spam, it also means that unsuspecting users could get in to trouble by having their comments accessible or accidentally posted to other sites that they never intended.

    • Duck says:

      I really wonder what the Net will look like in a few years, Bryan Lunduke did a talk a while back (on his site or…uhh, Youtube…) “The time of the Internet giants is coming to an end” where he talks about how and why he thinks the future of the net will be more like the 90’s with smaller versions of the googles and Amazons. He points out that their way of making money is kinda a pyramid scheme. I’m not sure myself, the only thing stopping me using Bitchute more is the search is a pain and I dont know how to save videos from it to my computer.
      On the bright sideit now will play on my phone browser.

  4. VoiceOfArabi says:

    I think YouTube executives (Google executives – the “Do No Evil Crowd” ) to be Evil and in the pocket of who ever pays the most, and I don’t support them. (but their technology is very good!)

    However, I am not sure that Bit Chute is ready for prime time yet. I have tried to watch the video above, and it kept getting stuck (none end buffering) and i gave up on the video on the third stop. (not even 2 minutes into the video.)

    I look forward to trying it again in few more months…

    • Duck says:

      With Google its like the pencils they gave school kids a few years back…”Don’t Do Drugs”
      After being sharpened for a while it’s message became “Do Drugs….”

  5. Adam Laughlin says:

    James, you forgot to post your BitChute referral code! : )

    Oh, it’s “corbettreport” – not difficult.

  6. Here’s a challenge to BitChute and all potentially progressive video platforms, social networks, etc. etc. etc. who claim to defend freedom…

    Will you build a platform – and give up control over it?

    Would you let your platform/company become a worker directed enterprise, aka, workers cooperative?

    Maybe you arrange a deal to retain 49% of ownership or profits or whatever your deal is, but you let the workers and users determine their own way of organizing. Maybe you franchise it out so that there are as many distributed mirror servers in as many towns as there are McDonalds or Subways – or more. Maybe everyone has their own server at home, by their water heater, as common as a refrigerator and/or freezer, next to their solar power decentralized smart-grid interface. Maybe I’m just a dreamer, but I’m not the only one.

    • Duck says:

      Jason Carswell
      Unless you set up a system specifically to be run like that from its inception you’d likely be opening it up to failure from a)people not working together b)People having perverse incentives that cause damage c)Bad actors taking over while everyone else surfs porn thru lazyness
      I guess the MESH DIY internet or B.A.T.M.A.N. could be an example of what your talking about but our local HAM’s never really got behind the idea.

      • I didn’t know about MESH DIY or BATMAN. Thanks.

        “A wireless mesh network (WMN) is a communications network made up of radio nodes organized in a mesh topology. It is also a form of wireless ad hoc network.”

        “The Better Approach To Mobile Adhoc Networking (B.A.T.M.A.N.) is a routing protocol for multi-hop mobile ad hoc networks which is under development by the German “Freifunk” community and intended to replace the link state routing protocol – OLSR.”

        I think you’re right about infiltration, for example I2P and FreeNet, like Tor, has childporn etc. If the childporn were not driven underground, it might be easier to catch the active villains, rather than just the digital witnesses and perverts who aren’t actually harming the kids. To my point, once you have censorship then you have abuse of censorship. So if there were absolutely no censorship then there’d be absolute freedom. But that’s a whole other mess that would need to be addressed, but not here.

        If GitHub and GitLab can develop open source projects cooperatively why not a network? The IPFS guys have regular meetings on YouTube and they all see affable.

        People are clever. I’m sure there’d be a way to determine if a file is porn or not, and/or if there’s a better source to get it (ie, not encrypted over IPFS), and or if someone was not contributing, etc. without being all surveillance state on you… etc.

        Your points are absolutely valid, but there could be legit transparent solutions developed.

        I’d love to see Corbett review the elite owners of GitHub, and how they control/monitor/exploit the open source community.

        • Duck says:

          I am ashamed to say I never thought about GitHub and who runs it.
          Honestly while I love this show I’m not sure how tec minded Mr Corbett is, nor how tec minded most of us in his audience are. I’m only semi computer literate.

          • anonymint says:

            Unless you set up a system specifically to be run like that from its inception you’d likely be opening it up to failure from a)people not working together b)People having perverse incentives that cause damage c)Bad actors taking over while everyone else surfs porn thru lazyness

            This is what permissionless, decentralized ledgers aim to solve but the problem is that no one has invented one yet that remains decentralized (I’m an expert on the study of that since 2013). It’s your hilarious but true unsharpened pencils “Do Drugs” deception all over again.

            Due Sybil attacks and sockpuppets a distributed ledger may not be decentralized. My linked analysis goes much deeper into the economics and game theory, as well as the technological. WARNING: it’s a very deep rabbit hole that will change your thinking about Bitcoin and who likely created it. And I’ve been trying to solve this design challenge.

            I want to again reiterate that these mesh network ideas are folly. The problem we’re solving is not distribution yet rather coordination and control. Mesh networks will never work. I have a more detailed post somewhere explaining why.

            Essentially it wouldn’t be economically efficient for us to dig canals with millions of people employing spoons.

            I entirely agree with transparency and permissionless systems are the key to our better future. And we also need to disintermediate GitHub and every damn centralized, closed-source database on the Internet. They’re all going away. Pack your bags folks, it won’t take too long.

      • zapped says:

        Don’t knock porn. Although it is true that bad acting goes hand in hand with porn.

  7. Octium says:

    The problems with real time mesh networks is that you need lots of interconnected nodes with no isolated islands in between before they become effective.

    It’s a chicken and egg situation. IE it’s not worth investing in joining a mesh network until it becomes established, and it won’t become establish until lots of people join.

    The Video Cassette Recorder initially became popular because people wanted to record programs off the TV and watch them at a time that was convenient for them without the adverts, it didn’t really bother the early adopters that video rentals and sales were not available or economical. Of course once the VCR become ubiquitous, video rentals and sales become a viable business and videos become a medium in their own right (With the succession of DvD, Blu-Ray and NetFlix, piggy backing off the success of VCRs)

    There needs to be a similar intermediate step for Mesh Networking.

    One way might be to have a non-real time “Store and Forward” model, where stand-alone server nodes can serve content to mobile devices (EG phones) with an app on the phone that stores a copy locally that can be automatically uploaded to the next stand-alone server when it comes in range.

    Some kind of reward system would be needed, so that users that assist with propagating information that is useful and wanted are favored over pure consumers of information.

    Actually, I had hopped with the founding of Newsbud that maybe some experimental system like that could be crowd funded as side project and integrated into the site, so that supporters could fund their own “black boxes” and redistribute information around their own neighborhoods for free…but that was before the sled was thrown into the furnace unfortunately 🙁

    • anonymint says:

      The problems with real time mesh networks is that you need lots of interconnected nodes with no isolated islands in between before they become effective.

      And for this reason a mesh network of mobile phones is entirely unrealistic because not only does the non-island criteria apply to the network connections but also to the availability of the data requested. Not every mobile phone is going to store every piece of data on the network.

      Also there’s the problem that serving data drains the battery. Mobile phones should not be doing extra work.

      It’s a chicken and egg situation.

      Disagree. It’s a natural law of physics at play. Resources in nature aren’t anywhere near uniformly and are instead Zipf (power-law) distributed because this coincides with the maximum division-of-labor, which is actually required for our existence. The last section of a recent blog of mine ponders the speculative physics.

  8. zapped says:

    Bitchute, it has become mandatory to sign up for one of those dreadful social media accounts to post comments on the darn site, where as I was not having to do so during the beginning stages of establishing an account with Bitchute. No matter where we go there we are and nowhere is ever perfect enough, so much for that “gratitude” thing everybody is expecting.

  9. wall says:

    How exactly do you get bitchutes videos to play? None of them will play.

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