Interview 1269 - Larken Rose Explains How To Talk To Statists

04/20/201729 Comments

Ever wondered how to get your friends to understand that government is inherently immoral? That no group of people can grant any government rights that they don't have themselves? That taxation is theft? Well, wonder no more! Larken Rose is touring a two-day workshop teaching voluntaryists how to most effectively convey the fundamentals of human freedom to their statist friends and neighbours. Today we talk to Larken about the seminar, what it teaches, and how people can attend.

Larken Rose website

Information on upcoming seminars

Candles in the Dark YouTube video

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  1. HomeRemedySupply says:

    Taxation and the White House Sean Spicer April 3, 2017
    Part of Trump’s paycheck was presented to the Park Service earlier in the Press Briefing.
    Sean was asked about the donation to a government entity. He responds that it can be difficult to donate money to the government, except for the IRS “And then, I don’t think you are giving”.

  2. gregory says:

    Interesting. Diehard statist here. Well — I’m on the fence.

    Here’s what’s missing, I think: John Dean, _Conservatives Without Conscience_, presented the studies that demonstrated that, roughly, 23% of the population are “followers.” Betas. And there are a great many among the remaining percentage, probably another 23%, who are alpha and on the other end of the bell-shaped curve. These people deserve to be happy, too. Some people love to lead and some love to follow. That’s about half the population. What they can do together is, obviously, both frightening and awesome. Santa Claus has nothing on these folks and they can be anything from well-meaning statists to f*ing gangsters, full-on.

    The psychopaths — 4% of the population — are consciousless parasites. It doesn’t matter what the game of life is, statist or non-statist, they will seek to gain control of it, presenting us with the world before us.

    When I was a thirty-something, and before, this philosophy would have resonated with me. Now I am older, my health is failing, and, frankly, talk of tossing my backside on the ash heap of history seems not only premature, but vile. Culture is imparted from the old to the young and it is the job of youth, apparently, to oppose/transform/revolt/rebel, and the job of the old is to be physically preserved and honored by youth. That is what seems natural and healthy to me. Not everyone gets to die an old centenarian.

    What frightens me isn’t whether or not I can rely on people voluntarily doing what comes naturally, but of what mob rule can do in tandem with the vile psychopaths who generally come ready-made with a criminal gang who just love being able to exploit the passive majority.

    How do I deal with my reasonable fears here? Well, I prepare. I am introverted af, so social networking is not my favorite thing to do. But I can tap into established networks of people who value healthy community to utilize what they are doing. Economically, though, my days of productivity are drawing to a close. Even Canada recognizes that it can’t take on immigrants who weren’t born there and have never paid the taxes necessary to sustain a welfare system.

    I guess I don’t have any answers, either, but I think we should keep talking about and evolving this reasoning into something greater than we were given. Which is, like it or not, our job as limited beings capable of tapping into infinite creativity.

    • scpat says:

      I share the same concern that you do when it comes to mob rule. It seems inevitable that this would cripple a Voluntary society, or any society lacking general authority. This important issue with Voluntarism/Anarchism stops me from thinking that type of society could ever work when there will always be people trying to take advantage of others, violently or otherwise.

      Also, this symptom of human nature has existed since the beginning of time. Studying and reading a bit on anthropology I’ve learned that humans have historically formed into groups, beginning with bands, tribes, chiefdoms, and eventually becoming states. The bigger the group, the greater the consolidation of power becomes in the hands of few individuals, and then the corruption and abuse of that power always follows.

      How could a Voluntary society ever compete with society’s built on Statism, that controls military power. How could a peaceful society function given these circumstances?

      • mkey says:

        How is this what we have now worse than mob rule? The last time I checked, mobs don’t commit genocide.

        Similar to claims that voluntarist society can’t work because of people sponging off the system. As if this current system isn’t choke full of sponges.

        • scpat says:

          Genocide would still occur in a world where even large amounts of Voluntarist societies existed. Statist type societies will most likely always exist. Religion will also always cause fighting, violence, and divide enough people and societies for there ever to be true harmony.

          The bottom line is still that a Voluntarist society cannot survive against a Statist based society if the Statist’s decide they wanted to get rid of you. The military might of the Statist’s would presumably be greater and impossible to overcome.

          I really like the general idea of Voluntarism/Anarchism but I don’t think it can succeed on a large scale.

          • Octium says:

            Pretty much every lifeform on this planet other than the bugs that live near Hydrothermal vents at the bottom of the ocean owe their existence to Stanislav Petrov.

            He saved us from statism once and gave us all a second chance. The scary thing is that he is unlikely the only one (just one we know about!)

            Statism is nothing but borrowed time, delayed extinction.

        • gregory says:

          I would say it is not worse than mob rule. Yet. The problem I have with alot of non-statists is they have never actually had to live in a place like Somalia or Afghanistan and the like. You well-thought out ideas and idealism will always be given a backseat to bare-bones survival of the fittest in these theatres. And the world, globally, is becoming just such a theatre. You will ALL have your dream of going head to head with the Rothschild Family and they will summarily kick your behind’s squarely between your shoulder blades.

          I applaud and appreciate the sincerity of non-statists and I know that their’s is the way of the future. But that future is presently under the auspices and control of a group of people who have made a multi-generational point of squashing enemies like bugs on a proverbial windshield. If you’re able to shoot your mouth off and speak any sort of heresy for or against a particular point of view, you can rest assured that that is ONLY because these powerful individuals already know you are not a serious threat to them or their hegemonic control.

          The game is rigged folks. Your flexibility is decided in advance. If you think you see daylight with some peculiar adaptation it is only because they’ve already thought of it and rigged the game against your long term success. Sure, your individual life might be successfully engaged using your principles, but no one creates a culture or a society of ONE PERSON, or even a village.

          • mkey says:

            I would say it’s worse than the mob rule. A lot lot worse.

            “… and they will summarily kick your behind’s squarely between your shoulder blades.”

            Thanks to the statists, yes. To that effect, statism isn’t the problem, the statist is.

            Anyway, looking at my failed state over here and the way it “handles” business I just have to wonder: what the hell is it good for?
            – the police ranks are full of semi literate idiots
            – the military (an obscene joke used for saberrattling on the behest of politicians) is pathetic yet expensive
            – roads are not built nor maintained
            – debt is ever growing (who knows what kinds of papers halfwit politicians sign every single day)
            – infrastructure is going to shit (what’s been maintained has been “monetized”)
            – the schooling system does not work
            – the health care system does not work
            – the welfare system does not work
            – people (those who WANT to work instead of grasping for the succulent state titty) are emigrating at an ALARMING rate

            There is NO MEDIUM TERM (forget about long term) strategy for getting out of this state, pardon the pun. Which makes sense, since politicians are a bunch of sellout halfwits of whom one can only get a rise during partisan maneuvers.

            Dragging into conversation failed states from across the globe in which a number of external interests converge will not bring this argument home. If various international players unloaded daily a few dozens of tonnes worth of weapons all across my country, I’m quite certain it would turn into the typical hellhole soon enough. External destabilization is a key which does not fit into this lock.

            Having grown up in a war torn country merely twenty years ago, I have to say the rule of the street wasn’t that bad. My neck of the woods didn’t see much anything of the war, not directly anyway. We hosted a bunch of refugees and there was the occasional mind washing propaganda centered air attack alert, but being a kid in such environment was for the most part OK. The rules of the street were known and elders were to be respected, unlike today. There was some crime going on, mostly unmolested by the police, pretty much like today. There were some dangerous individuals with war torn minds walking around, of course and people were quite decently armed, but there weren’t that many tragedies. During my growing up a lot more people died of leukemia than bullets.

    • HomeRemedySupply says:

      Psychopaths are a real problem. And they tend to infect others.

      Distance from their influence is one remedy.

      Decentralization can help one distance themselves from psychopathic influence.

    • BeaverBill says:

      I tend to agree with the statists here, purist anarchism is “wonderful” in theory but impractical in practice, “one apple spoils the bunch”. At risk of being more cliche, it seems that “anarchists” feel that throwing the baby out with the bath water is a solution when I honestly don’t think that starting off from zero actually solves anything.


Reform is in dire need, the powers that be have gone off the deep end, that is where the anarchists come in instead of pigeon holing ourselves with historical norms, but the power of the group is overwhelming and, historically, survival of the fittest only leads to what we have now with the group of elites that unilaterally decide on the best for themselves, the trickle down economics facade


 As mentioned, reform is absolutely necessary but anarchism seems a complementary term to other political/social idealisms. To over explain my view, if we were to break down society to the basics of “do as thy wilt shall be the whole of the law”, I’m positive that the majority of the group will desire order, sooner or later, therefore organizing a governing body to enforce basic standards. That can only be done, in current society, by a willing group of citizens supporting a voted and supported body of enforcers for socially accepted norms, a democratically elected body. For social disagreements, the group will decide on an elder, an arbiter, to resolve issues as to keep the citizens from acting out of passion and taking violent means into their own hands as a solution. If you haven’t been in that position, I have, and I live in a relatively “free” society, albeit with the same illnesses of the ruling elite corruption, totally unacceptable, “born free and taxed to death”. 

      On the major scale of over population, in my view, a socialist idealism, of having funds dedicated to social ills and a basis reducing poverty, caring for society’s basic needs, protects our children from the repercussions of rampant poverty, lack of education, social health (in close quarters, overpopulation) but with the repercussions of self serving politicians forming their self serving policies which ultimately promotes the survival of the “fittest” which the ruling elite have adopted without a general consent… but is that political reform or ideological reform? I agree with “anarchism” (my limited understanding of it) within the social context, I find it as advancement, for e.g.. why shouldn’t I be able to legally install a solar roof and become energy self sufficient? Why do I have to believe in YOUR God? etc…., but can I call that pure “anarchism” while living within another system?

      Everything sounds good on paper but in practice, it’s another thing.

  3. mkey says:

    Having knowledge other people reject on a knee jerk reaction doesn’t make you socially popular. Not caring about objectively completely unimportant stuff others get very invested in doesn’t help, either. Like the match from last night. Or a juicy reply one “representative” cast toward the other “representative” regarding horizontal orientation of said representative’s grandparents. Or what some tramp did, said, looked or acted like on the telly in one among a trillion of zero value TV shows.

    This being said, I really don’t see how can one opt to go back. I know cypher wanted to go back and I kind of understood he was so sickened by the truth and the reality, but he did insist on erasion of his memories, didn’t he?

    The moral qualm I have regarding turning others is: what gives me the right to burst their bubble? Nobody turned me, not directly, kind of grew into it and it took a while. I do understand the importance of making people see, but how many people can one be expected to turn? Two, maybe three? I can absolutely not see any way of doing more than 4 or 5. It’s silly to talk about it in these terms, but in the end, like every other conflict, this boils down to a numbers game. I don’t think we’ll be able to talk about being in the 3% for a while longer.

    Most people I care about are in their thirties, most are married, some are working on having kids, they are mostly part of the middle class (well, new middle is old lowish really) and they are living their happy albeit oblivious consumerist lives. Ish. I guess it’s incumbent on me to act on this, but I need them to show initiative, if not to make the first step at least to stumble in the right direction.

  4. One of my biggest problems with anarchy is sheeple, the other is gangs – both are tribalist instincts that are inescapable.

    I’ve always been my own person free of the herd. But many like the herd. And gangs have a purpose, whether to build structures or cultures, catch serial killers, or thug mafia corruption, domination, exploitation, and violence.

    You will never be able to get people to quit the herd or gang mentality. Tribalism is part of who we are, for better or worse. Life is a balancing act. Mind/body, male/female, nature/nurture, chaos/order, and of course – self/community = tribalism wu-wei.

    That’s why I’m on the fence as a Anarcho-Marxist or Social-Agorist who believes in bottom-up authentic democracy (worker co-ops, etc), not the “Social-Democrat” or “Communist” top-down authoritarian illusion of democracy (voting, etc).

    I do agree that we need more anarcho-advocates to balance the mafia thug police state, deep state, war industry, etc. – even ideally to eliminate it, but like socialism (or a “free-market”), anarchy is an unattainable idealist fantasy/goal worthy of striving for.


    • Remember: Most people are stupider than average or really close.

    • = Corbett Report Torrents =

      If James Corbett approves, I’d be happy to (slowly) seed Corbett Report torrents of his archive, if he doesn’t want to do so himself.

      There are already several dozen Corbett Report torrents out there from someone but most are abandoned. (Those that finished are of the few things I keep seeding.)

      Many shows feature support information but adding a note with donation and support links would be good. Also translation or subtitle packs would be good.

      Re-encoding smaller high def videos in HEVC would be great (but very slow for me with my current gear). Also, I’d have to borrow the DVD TCR Archive from someone (as I have no money) if I were to do this.

      Torrents would be good for spreading the message, publicity, awareness, and maybe get by techno-censorship in various countries.

      Many torrent users may be Pirates and wouldn’t buy DVDs anyway, especially when the content is already free online. Then again, they may donate and support.

      Torrents have limitations like anything but it is a popular effective alternative to websites over the internet in an age of looming censorship. We need to support alternatives.

      Win win win!

    • = Somalia Oil ! =

      Over Christmas, my uncle, an aircraft engineer (mechanic) for the U.N. back for the holidays, was talking about the perpetual Obama US bombing in Mogadishu, the capital of Somalia, but it wasn’t covered by corporate media.

      Jimmy Dore explains that off the coast in the Indian Ocean is one of the largest oil deposits. Despite being one of the poorest countries, one province has deposits making it one of the 20 richest.

      The Jimmy Dore Show “US Now B-O-M-B-I-N-G Somalia, Guess Why?” (2017-04-18):

  5. Brandi says:

    I feel this runs into the same thing as the Koch Brothers, in which if we did, they will have all their money, land, and property, so I don’t see how this will play out or work.

  6. BeaverBill says:

    Although I have not looked into anarchism in depth, I find that society already brinks on the edge of anarchism anyways, people generally practice what they want, do what they want , live, more or less, as they want. This could depend on where you live, whether you live in a police state , such as Canada or the US, where the enforcement of laws can reach absurd levels, where those laws seem to only criminalize the citizen but I guess the argument is more in depth once you start defining the anarchist ideal that you are trying to promote as it is multifaceted. To pigeon hole the idealism into a corner isn’t reasonable but to think that it is a blanket solution is equally as unreasonable.

    I have found from experience that in a group of people who go about doing what ever they feel as right when they want to, how they want to , as free as they want to, generally doesn’t work for me. Some sort of social norm to unify the group helps in coexistence, while the whole of the group might be on the same level, things can be talked out and rationalized, people can live the way they feel without discrimination but there’s always one or two (or more) in the group that wants to be more equal than others, usually that person(s) is (are) the most vocal and ardent in their idealisms, but also, tend to be the person(s) that try to take control and take advantage of the situation at hand, manipulating the situation to their whole advantage. This is just a small example of the bigger picture.

    Do I want that there are basic laws of conduct, yes. Over here I can be driving down the street and out of the blue, someone crosses, contradicting traffic norms, when they officially do not have a right to cross the road. They risked their life, they risked my well being (if I wasn’t paying attention and had hit them) and possibly someone else life if I had veered and hit someone else. What does this say? Social anarchism already bubbles under the surface of the facade of laws and norms, people still do what they want, when they want and how they want, it’s just that sometimes you need someone to tap the “extremists” on the shoulder and get them back into line for the better good of the general populous and for their general good as well. “It’s not illegal, until you get caught”

    If you apply anarchism in the political world, there’s a major need for political reform, the process has been highjacked, where “anarchism” can provide solutions by thinking outside of the box, but that renders anarchism as a transitory process to once again fall into law and order and general governance. 

    Can we say that the political processes have been highjacked by the political “anarchist” elite that rule for only their favor, above social norms, applying those norms and laws on everyone else except on themselves and their social class/clans/groups?

  7. danmanultra says:

    Seems to me true anarchism should be “anarchism of the heart”. Have a free mind and a free life. Work with others and share and make your life your own. Whether that builds into something more should be an organic process, I suppose. You will never erase the state; it has always existed in some form or other. But you can ignore and subvert it and probably live a nice life as many have throughout history.

  8. gregory says:

    I’ve scanned the Global 2030 from NIC and, to every non-statist’s surprise, the NIC sees a shrinking role of state power in the coming years, as well as a rise in decentralized authority, globally.

    At first blush this seems like a boon for Anarchy, but, as our many skeptics will agree, this is “Mad Max” territory. Corporations and individual billionaires are looking at these military-trained armed thugs and salivating and all Republicans have done for the last 30 years is destroy government infrastructure. So, with all due respect to the NIC’s former chair and the mammoth amount of work he’s tried to sneak past Clapper, I am seeing “rise of the warlords” on our immediate horizon. That means the more a governmental or organized collective behaves like a warlord (think, “Alexander the Great”), the less inclined competition will be to assault or engage in games of conquest against such a collective.

    The only short-term hope Anarchy has is to make a case for the state to operate socio-cultural “skunkworks,” where the rules are very clear and every idea that every intellectual or malcontent can establish an audience for is given an equal chance of success in the field of pure ideas. It would be an EASY SELL to suggest that it is in the STATE’S best interests to engage in these activities given the nature of the road ahead.

    • BeaverBill says:

      “United we stand, divided we fall”…. is “Balkanization” A fair method to assume control as an easier method of conquest? I think it rational to assume that “we” are now food for the machine, it has gone without us, “democracy” is dead.

  9. HomeRemedySupply says:

    Psychopaths & Influence
    I think anyone can benefit by removing themselves from psychopathic influence. Of course, some psychopaths “get removed” either by a shot in the head or by being caged.
    Psychopathic behavior and influence tends to be contagious. Ethical behavior and influence can also be contagious.

    Sphere of Influence
    Each individual has a sphere of influence. The more distant from that sphere of influence, the more difficult it is to control. Example: An individual has extreme difficulty controlling National government, and in fact, even many politicians do.
    However, many things within close proximity of influence are more easily controlled by the individual. Example: A person can decide when to go to the bathroom, or Corbett can exert influence on a vast audience.

    By decentralizing, by removing influences outside the control perimeters of oneself, and focusing on those aspects which can be controlled by the individual, then we are on the road towards more freedom of control in our daily lives.
    In my opinion, anarchism and agorism and voluntaryism philosophy can help an individual to become more in control of his life and his surrounding environment.
    Control and influence of those things which are easily obtainable, which are within reach. Focus on what is efficacious. Fart off those things of which we can not control.
    My BB gun is no match for the military/police state/political/corporate/industrial complex. But it works for the squirrels in the back yard.
    More on PYSCHOPATHS…
    Corbett’s “kakistocracy”
    Corbett’s “psychopaths”
    Corbett’s “pedophile”

    • mkey says:

      What do you have against squirrels?

      • HomeRemedySupply says:

        Squirrels are actually in the rodent family. I call them tree rats. They get in my garden and will grab things like peaches just when they are ripe. They can tear up a garden. Squirrels multiply quickly and often are replaced by other squirrels. I used to “catch and release” to another area, but a new family of squirrels would move in. They made me appreciate the coyotes, bobcats, owls and hawks. ( I once had a pet red-tailed hawk.)

        • mkey says:

          I didn’t know they can be such pests, I guess anything in large numbers/quantities isn’t good for your garden and/or health.

          I would get pissed off over having a freshly minted peach stolen lol

  10. fatso says:

    “Stand for something or fall for anything”!!

  11. brokor says:

    “It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society. ” — J. Krishnamurti

  12. LenZoo says:

    Please excuse my unsophistication in this matter, but how would it work with the roads, hospitals, and public transportation if we didn’t pay taxes?

    • mkey says:

      I don’t know about your country, but in my failed state the state of infrastructure is in shambles. The roads are in terrible state, literally potholes on potholes.

      The healthcare system is in disarray, too. A lot of taxes is collected toward that goal (for instance, every month 15% is stolen from my paycheck for that goal) but the still the buildings are crumbling, the staff is underpayed and a lot of people from the medical profession are leaving the country for another EU state. All this results in the fact that, even after being robbed of those 15% I need to go to a privately held doctor’s office and pay for the treatment or procedure.

      Public transportation is partially private, partially state owned and as such in complete shambles. Fairs are not expensive at all, but there are severe safety and comfort concerns. Cabs are no alternative since they overcharge while stuff like uber is outlawed.

      Any of these could be handled by a private held entity a lot better. There are many local examples where people would pay a private contractor to pave their street after waiting for the state for 10 years to do it. You can petition all you want, but they still don’t care. It’s not that the “state” can’t do it, it just doesn’t want to. If taxes are collected for a specific goal, they should be spent on that specific goal, but instead taxes just amount to a highway robbery.

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