Anarchy? - Questions For Rose

02/26/202074 Comments

Larken and Amanda Rose of The Rose Channel join James in Acapulco to answer some questions from our previous conversation about how to talk to statists.

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Interview 1510 – Larken and Amanda Rose Shine Candles In The Dark

The Rose Channel

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  1. Won Fat Fuk says:

    I am dissatisfied with the answers provided by Mr. and Mrs. Rose. It appears that they are not thinking things through.
    What if you have a tribe of 25 families. One of these families is absolutely contaminating something (water or land) that absolutely affects the other 24 families negatively. The other 24 families are going to form a voluntary association to respectively request that the 25th family please stop what they are doing. What if the 25th family WILL NOT stop the contamination FOR ANY reason? What do you think the other 24 voluntarily organized families are going to do? They are going to voluntarily FORCE the 25th family to stop contaminating or leave. Can you see what has just happened? The voluntary association has formed a government. (THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT HAS HAPPENED!!) You can see where this is going? Do you think that that “voluntary association” is going to cease to exist after the 25th family has been taken care of? I’M AFRAID NOT! Over time the number of families in the tribe will grow but “the voluntary association” aka “government” will stay to take care of other conflicts and issues within the tribe. It will become a tradition.
    Please straighten me out?

    • mkey says:

      The mere fact 24 families are forcing the 25th family to do something (or in this case, stop doing something) does not constitute government. If 23 families would bestow the divine right upon 24th family to do as they please and then 24th family struck a deal with the 25th family to keep the ball rolling while pretending something is being done, but alas, bureaucracy is slow, you know how it is; then surely you would have a case here.

      Even if these 24 families would start to transmute into a government, that’s still leagues upon leagues away from bombing a random nation back into the stone age several continents away.

      I’m not saying these are the perfect answers to many questions, but I don’t see Larken pledging to become the all-supreme leader of the Milky way so I wouldn’t say he really needs not provide one size fit all solutions for all issues, both contrived and otherwise; that’s more to be expected from a politician.

      • Won Fat Fuk says:

        My point was that you can’t get away from government. Not necessarily Big Government(s), and Larken did refer to big established government(s). However, Governments are going to evolve from something small to something big whether we like it or not. My example was how a small one might have started, but once started, will not go away, and over time will grow in size and scope. This seems very natural. It seems un-natural for a government not to evolve. I don’t think it’s a matter of social conditioning.

      • generalbottlewasher says:

        Mkey, I see what you mean and agree but in defining terms here the genesis of your last word above has to be LAWYER. What do they do ? Stand around the temple all day and exchange money from the real world into money for the fantasy ie.abstract world. There by creating the cancer on healthy communities. You describe them perfectly.
        This guy Ayyadurai has a good description, explanation of the fathers of all swamp creature.

    • arthur.b says:

      I agree with you when you say in your example that “The voluntary association has formed a government.” The twenty four families have come together to form a governing body which imposes its will on the other family. The twenty four families have become an authoritative body. Every member of that authoritative body is then subject to the authority that they created. Can anarchy exist? In such a society every member would have to recognize every other member as being equal in every respect. Since we are not all equal in intellect and physical abilities it is likely that a hierarchy would naturally evolve. That(a hierarchy) in itself is a form of government Some individuals would necessarily be submissive to others. Those in a higher position of power would take advantage of and rule over (govern) subordinates. I cannot think of an example among the lower social animals where a hierarchy does not exist There are the queen bees, alpha males, herd bulls etc. The hive,the pack and the herd have a social structure or in essence a government. In the past societies of humans have formed governments to, as the preamble to the US Constitution alleges,” establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity,…” It is the only way one group with the same values can protect themselves from individuals or other groups with different values. I don’t have the answer for how to create a perfect society. We homo sapiens are social beings. Those individuals with the same morals and values will come together and form societies. Those societies will make rules ie. form governments, to protect themselves from societies and individuals with different morals and values. One of the problems as I see it, is that most (99.99%)of the members of the modern corporate state (United States, European Union, Iraq, Australia, etc..), have always been subjects to a form of government over which they have never had control.

    • Octium says:

      No, it’s not the application of FORCE that is the definition of Government.

      Every individual has the right to self defense.

      If a person upstream of me is tipping poison in a river that I drink from, that person is threatening my existence and I have a right to self defense.

      If I’m a reasonable person I’m going to try peaceful negotiation with them first, however if negotiation fails, I still have the right to protect myself using FORCE. I haven’t become a government at this stage. I’m just an individual who is exercising their right to self defense.

      Now, the other 23 people who live downstream of me, drink the water and who are also being poison, each individually have the right to defend themselves against the polluter.

      Now it might turn out that the polluter out guns each of us individually and is not going to take no as an answer, if we all decide to pool our resources to produce a combined force that is greater than the polluter, we have not created any NEW rules at that stage, we are still only exercising our rights to self defense and we have not become a government.

      The moment a group of people create rules that they don’t each individually have the rights for themselves – that’s when a group becomes a government.

      Although it is unwise, there is nothing morally wrong with a group of people getting together and deciding they would like a government and creating rules that govern themselves, provided that the rules only apply to members of the group and association with the group is purely voluntary. Even so, they can’t use FORCE to enforce a rule on an outsider.

      • mkey says:

        This last bit tunes in with Constitution of no authority. If these 24 families understand that their agreement doesn’t extend to anyone but to its signatories, there’s no foul play.

        They may leave the agreement to their posterity, but it is up to them to decide whether they wish to abide or ignore it completely.

      • mik says:

        “The moment a group of people create rules that they don’t each individually have the rights for themselves – that’s when a group becomes a government”

        Devil’s advocate question:

        What about eventual group decision to expel a member for some major unforgivable transgression?
        It’s reasonable for such a rule to exist, still no individual member of a group has a right to expel someone.

  2. zyxzevn says:

    Thanks for answering my question. You can pronounce my “login-name” as 67.

    I like thinking from different perspectives.
    In the previous video, I noticed that the answer is Responsibility.


    You can not force other people to be responsible, without a clear
    indication of damage. That is a difficulty in both anarchy (hygiene, burning tires) and government (pesticides, 5G).

    We may teach other people to be responsible, but that might
    take time.

    The government often takes responsibility, but that does not mean
    that the problem is solved. It often allows companies and lobbyists
    to be irresponsible. It also teaches people not to be responsible

    In religions, there is also a governmental system.
    You must pay the church some money and do your daily prayers.
    People in free cultures are much more free-thinking in many ways,
    and do not force a certain belief onto you.

    History of governments and wars:

    It might be interesting to look at anarchy in a historical concept.

    Tribes were often religious, but the leaders were based on age,
    votes, religion and birth. The whole government thing in Europe started when farming developed and people organized in towns and villages.
    We got the Greece and the Roman empire, and their wars.

    Later, the government was the Roman Church and farmers who hired people to do their work.
    Some organized groups to rob or defend other people. And these became
    the nobility and first kind of government. They were there to protect their group
    and to attack other groups. These attacks often became wars between small governments or big states.

    The same happened in Asia, but with different waves of wars.

    In all cases the wars seemed to lay structures for the governments
    that followed. The mixture of governments and wars seems the most
    destructive, but also the strongest survivor. The cultures that
    did not have strong armies simply disappeared.

    So, is the government the solution against wars or the cause of wars or both?
    I think it is both.
    But can some non-governmental structure survive the warring governments?

    • HomeRemedySupply says:

      “You can pronounce my “login-name” as 67.”

      Now I know.

      • zyxzevn says:

        If I ever get banned, I think I will add 2 to my name.
        Started using it in a game, and was easy to remember.
        I sometimes complain to people using numbers as login-name.
        And now some databases have registered a person with a sir-name Zevn
        Would love to use Null as a name too.
        Full name Null;Drop tables

    • zyxzevn says:

      I don’t think that this is a good solution:
      Drone to stop loud neighbors
      But how do you stop loud music?

      I think that the anarchy people want to replace “government” with human-human interaction. The interactions in a community can also solve a lot of problems.

      If it goes out of hand, because of quarrels, there could be some service of people that help to solve the problems. The problem is that this “service” could become a mafia triad by themselves. There is also the historical problem of organized invaders who are better armed.

  3. Redneard says:

    The ONLY way to win this vicious war on truth and freedom is to push ourselves as hard as we can in every way possible, and then push HARDER. Double, triple our efforts across the board; learn to read faster, to think faster, to outwit and out-strategize even the most entrenched defender of the state. We must spread the voice of reason far and wide, shouting if need be, on every outlet, every platform, into every uninformed ear. We must even learn the difficult art of sacrifice, the trimming away of useless enjoyments, the exchanging of frivolous experience for the hardened edge of right knowledge and righteous ability. This may consist of less sleep, less social time, less leisure, but it WILL be worth it to avert the totalitarian apocalypse so eagerly beckoned by the ignorant statist hordes, the sleeping masses so keen on the violation of life. It is up to us, the willing defenders and soldiers of liberty, to bear this weighty load of action, that we may heft its burden upon the shoulders of the blind and free them. This is no easy task, downing the very goliath of violence itself, but if you are here, reading these words, this duty is unshakably yours. So stock up friends, on books, knowledge, arguments, and most importantly, COFFEE; for there is no less at stake than the very existence of the human race itself.

  4. JadeEyes says:

    Absolutely excellent!!!!

  5. baty says:

    So we shouldn’t have environmental regulations because eventually the regulators will be “bought off?” I find these answers not fully formed. People who live in close quarters make rules–I guess it’s anarchy until it’s written down, but good fences do make good neighbors. If I know I can go to authorities or legal representation, that means I don’t have to personally confront someone and potentially get into an altercation.
    We can set up different checks and balances to ‘trust but verify,’ and while liberty is paramount, cooperation is advantageous.
    Government at it’s best is an organizing principle, and it allows us to tackle bigger problems together. It seems like a fear of corruption, however justified, shouldn’t prevent us from coordinating our resources.

    • jason.s says:

      The explanation that regulators are bought off is a side tangent to the core idea that some people have the authority to indiscriminately cause harm. It’s hard to imagine that there might be a way to resolve the issue because much of our imagination has been quarantined inside a narrow spectrum of consideration via social institutions like compulsory education, entertainment industry, scientism, etc.

      Government in the context of the discussion that James, Larken and Amanda are having is the idea of a fictional body who is permitted to cause harm. There are other means of people gathering like what Amanda mentions in communities, committees and organizations. With strength in numbers, a greater will can be imposed like boycotting, exposing deceit and sharing alternative ideas. It does not take the rule of authority to make this happen.

  6. Pulpo says:

    Man is flawed and nature is brutal. Anarchy addresses this through organic cultural structures and government attempts to correct it by means of coercion.

    The concept of the “alpha wolf”, a leader-follower structure, was concluded from observing wolf behavior in zoos. Wolves in the wild were observed to interact within a family structure (source link below).

    Anarchy corresponds to humans interacting in the wild and government to that of humans in a zoo.

  7. wylie1 says:

    Question for Larken, Amanda, and James:
    Since many folks, oftentimes less than 50 percent of the population vote, how will not voting hasten the arrival of [No Government]?
    Since it seems most people are slow to get used to an idea and even slower to make changes in their lives… Would it expedite much less government MUCH sooner if Voluntaryists organized to insert themselves as a virus into the body politic, dismantling more of govt over time, until the children(pseudo adults) were able to not freak out about their govt crutch, their govt pacifier, their govt nanny, going away?

  8. wylie1 says:

    Addressing some of the comments above.
    Govt IS the cause. It legalizes and actually writes permits to polluters allowing them to pollute, and robs you to pay for its so called Environmental Depts both State and Federal. Those agencies DO NOTHING to monitor polluters unless a sickness or noticeable problem develops; maybe, if there is enough outcry. If you knew how that process worked, you may say, “Well that’s just wrong!” Yes, that is what is wrong with all of govt. Every govt agency protects its industry FROM the people, not what their agency title would have you believe. Stop being fooled by that propaganda of agency names.

    If there was no govt pseudo regulation of pollution, many wrongly assume that polluters would just pollute even more, because its cheaper to dump it. Some might until their factory went up in flames. Just because you or I wouldn’t take such drastic measures, I’ve seen a business on a major city street get fired bombed two or three times(can’t recall which) until it closed for good. It wasn’t the competition since none for miles. Certain people don’t like getting screwed. Yet they welcome it from govt. It tells you how effective govt school and media indoctrination is.

    By the way, if I am a polluting factory, I get to estimate how much pollution I will be creating using industry standard pollution control technology (not state of the art tech or even more innovative or effective tech) then apply for a GOVT PERMIT to allow that much pollution. Do you think that govt is monitoring the various polluters to see if the are staying within “regulations”? Call up your local Dept of Environmental Quality or whatever its called and ask them how many factories they visit on a given week. If you get anything other than, “well, we really don’t have funding for that,” you, in most if not all jurisdictions, are being lied to.

    • wylie1 says:

      Govt vs. Free Association
      Some people seem hell bent on claiming people grouping together for a cause is govt. If people can join or leave without moving locations then it is Voluntary, even if there are dues to belong or payment for services. If you can leave the group without leaving the area, then it isn’t govt. Even if the group exists in perpetuity.

      Can you leave the USA, your State, County, or City, without moving location? Not as yet. Govt claims a geographical area. If you are in that area you are dictated to by that govt.

      If 25 families in a valley gather together, form an Association to get spring water from the nearby mountains, is that govt? Clearly some are hell bent on claiming it is. Not so. Even though all are expected to chip in, any number of families could opt out at any time and dig a well, use a rain collection system, get their water trucked in, etc. Some I know HAVE dug their own well, when GOVT required a bunch of costly testing to “protect the people” when everything had been fine for 50-60 years. If you have a testing lab, you can get much more business if you send a big donation to the state governors re-election campaign with a note saying “remember us”. Then have someone you know living in one of the many such water associations complain of a problem and have the governor pass and emergency bill through the state legislature.

      So now the govt of no choice forces all water associations in my state to test for gobs of things that would never be there, even some that wouldn’t occur unless we were nuked, and then it wouldn’t matter.

      Govt IS the problem, not the solution. Could we test for whatever we wanted, that could be a problem on our own? Sure, that could make sense.

      Another Voluntary solution could be to install a very good filtering system or such at each house, so in the event something bad occurred causing unwanted things like pesticide or such to get in the water, even some scumbag trying to hurt everyone there, the prevention method seems wise. Even the govt agency administrators who dictate chlorine and fluoride to city water systems admit they would much prefer our water to theirs. Even while trying to arm twist us into putting those toxic chemicals into our system. Why? Govt cronyism from those chemical suppliers.

      Government IS the problem, not the solution.

    • wylie1 says:

      Defense and Protection
      Anyone ever heard of neighborhood watch(and others)? These volunteer groups exist because govt failed to deliver, yet still extract gobs of dough while claiming to protect.

      Michigan Militia(and others)? Although it is unlikely Canada will invade the usa, supposedly they are ready if their own govt gets too far out of hand. Not sure what their tipping point is. If you are not concerned about what your govt may do to you for no good reason, you haven’t been paying attention. Go watch some videos of police brutality and insanity at: the free thought project . com

      City police stand down, actually remove barriers separating opposing groups, watching while Antifa brutally attack innocent people and reporters at a gathering; because the Marxist mayor supports any leftist attempts to shut down opposition. That is your tax dollars at work.

      And you worry what it would be like with no govt? Wake up. Govt is the problem, not the solution.

      Heard of the State National Guard? Although National Guards are sponsored by the current govt system, people volunteer, it could readily be converted back to its original or better “defense only” mandate; rather than its leadership selling out to the new world order globalist military campaigns when the regular army, etc. had low volunteer rates. Unfortunately those in the National Guard didn’t revolt and should have. —If no one shows up, there is no war. Some of those dated pilots in the Air National Guard out-fly the young hotshots in the air force with newer jets.

      Indonesia seems to have a lot less repeat offenders with their punishment of whacking with a cane. If they act like children, treat them like one? A young american kid living there with his folks got into some mischief and got sentenced with just one whack of the cane. Said he wouldn’t be wanting that again. The bleeding hearts who claim brutality… Being cramped in a tiny cell with an animalistic hierarchy learning to be better stronger criminals seems to much worse for all involved including the tax payer.

      Put up a sign: All who enter this community if commit a crime, will be caned harshly. You will wish you never came here. Would that discourage tourists? Mainly the criminals, the lower the crime the more the tourists have an enjoyable time and less bad word of mouth.

      Govt IS the problem, not the solution.

  9. alexandre says:

    The more I see the Roses, the more I’m an anarchist – or voluntarist, or whatever they are. It’s amazing to see them explaining over and over again that 2+2=4. “Oh yeah? And how would a world where 2+2=4 be like?! You tell me that, you philosopher you!” Amazing.

    Just for my 2 reais, I think people should consider that some times when you take the step, things that you didn’t know could happen mysteriously happen. I had an experience once that may be an example.
    Where I live, in this community, there’s an uphill that turned into mud whenever rained. One day I couldn’t go up with my car – had to go up in reverse with the car backwards (cause it’s front-wheel drive etc) and so, fed up, the next day I decided to go to the store to buy concrete etc to build that piece of the road myself. I had no idea how to do it, but I went anyway. “I’ll improvise, dammit”. On my way, I met a neighbor and told him what I was about to do. He said “Wait, leave it to me, I know how to do it”. So the next day this guy called some friends and they built that piece of the road, then he divided the costs among whoever uses it. I paid my part, some others paid their part, the other neighbor didn’t have money, so he gave some materials he had etc etc and voilà, we have a concrete road that never turns to mud anymore. One guy didn’t pay and he uses the road, so it’s not perfect, but it’s done. All I did was say “fuck it” and went – you know, get in the car and go outside. Make the move. Move your body, shake that ass. Then stuff happens – you meet the neighbor “by accident” and at the end, it’s done.
    I wouldn’t count on that guy appearing and if I had thought about it, I wouldn’t have done anything. In communities people talk and talk but very little is actually done. When you just GO, things happen. With this in mind, it’s impossible to tell what life will be, just like Larken said.

    Anyone incapable of getting out of the box, will stay there forever and there’s nothing we can do. Like a friend (sort of) that refuses to accept that vaccines might be a problem. He doesn’t read any material, doesn’t click on links, he just insults me, tells me to fuck off and stop spreading false information, fake news etc. I keep sending material as my civic duty, but I just get abuse in return. Nothing one can do against a fundamentalism that’s worse than any jihad.

    Love the Roses.

    • wylie1 says:

      Those who don’t contribute are really irritating. At least to me.
      Often it gets back to the prostitute adage or saying: The perceived value of a prostitute is much higher before than after.

      Glad it worked out. On a bigger project, best to know beforehand a good estimate so people not surprised and can discuss any possible alternatives, if any.

      One time a neighbor offered to dig a trench for the new community water line, with his backhoe. Turns out we could have hired an outside contractor for less than the neighbor charged after digging it. That caused a lot of friction in the community. Some supporting their fellow person of same ancestral heritage and the rest who just wanting it to cost reasonable.

      Hopefully you learned how to do that concrete too.

      • alexandre says:

        No, I didn’t learn how to do it. It’s kind of difficult. That’s why there are people that do it. But my point was a bit to the “out of theory” side, more or less, when you think and discuss too much and nothing happens. Some impulsive action then comes to break that off, and then things happen. And if you have to get permits from government, forget about it.

        • mik says:

          Few cubic meters of concrete is not difficult, it’s damn hard.

          “Some impulsive action then comes to break that off, and then things happen”

          This approach functions up to small community level, but it is not scalable. Big things hasn’t been done this way, ok, maybe there are some notable examples.

          • alexandre says:

            Yes, hardly the Golden Gate bridge could be built that way. Then again a small community (the only possibility for anarchism?) maybe wouldn’t need a bridge like that.

            I don’t think I can build or defend an argument as in a philosophical debate, but it has something to do with forcing some action. In my example, the neighbor jumped to action to prevent ME from fucking up, because I would have made a complete mess.

            (Strangely a scene came to my mind. Remember the big indian in “One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest”? When he gets up and throws the water drinker through the window and goes away? That kind of thing. It’s not rational stuff. It’s … bang! And then something happens).

            Again, the point is that things happen, when you DO something, that you couldn’t count on or predict. That’s exactly why technocracy doesn’t work – indeed works backwards. Technocrats in rooms planning shit don’t take into account the other billion details of life that they know nothing about. Social engineering, in this sense, is an absurdity.

            Another example: I wanted to build a cement statue in my garden. I knew I was gonna mess it up, but it was an exercise in this point. After designing – planning etc – I started making it and man, a thousand things I didn’t plan came in, things I had no way of knowing. It’s there, the ugly bastard. It’s very different from what I planned, but it’s done. If I have thought too much, it wouldn’t exist because, as my mother used to say, “you don’t know how to make it, leave it alone!” Well, I prefer an ugly statue that exists, that I made, than a perfect one that doesn’t. And I learned a lot in the process.

            I know Jung is persona non grata, but he made this point as well, when he went to build his house at Bollingen with his own hands (with the help of one guy I think). Academics don’t get their hands dirty. Knowing something from books is one thing; another is knowing from experience. Something like that.

            • mik says:

              They might need, want, use Golden bridge, but even building something smaller could well be beyond their reach, possible only in imagination, and that is the end of story.

              Small communities are the only way for anarchy on the short run, on the long run bigger structures have to emerge. I think it’s impossible people will just give up things that need highly organized society for producing them.

              Technocracy works just fine for them. Technocracy is not about blindly sticking to the plan, when adjustments are needed they are applied. Of course, to put every minute detail to the plan is close to impossible, but that doesn’t mean an attempt is nonsense.
              Social engineering works quite well, look around. It’s not necessary to get us, black sheep, to get majority is good enough.

              I like the one about books and experience. Some knowledge from books rely on belief author is not cheating, so it is belief-knowledge.
              Well, books can give you something you hardly get from experience, abstract reasoning.
              Occasionally I really have hard times explaining things from their domain to craftsman I’m working with, because in their opinion math and physics are for students and the ilk.

              Didn’t know Jung built house by himself. Beautiful, he lived not just in a world of ideas, he lived in material world too.
              Of course with help (probably not just one), otherwise would take eternity.

              • alexandre says:

                All accepted.

                Jung’s house did take forever. He started with one tower and slowly built the rest bit by bit. That was the point of it, and he said that the only thing a medieval man would find strange there was a box of matches.

            • mkey says:

              No crowd funding in anarchy? No big businesses with big business interests? Granted, insane public works that serve no other purpose but for the cronies to get in on the action via juiced up contracts and making a landslide on sweet land deals would go the way of the dodo, much of the infrastructure would be doable and reasonably maintainable.

      • Octium says:

        But the guy who didn’t contribute, didn’t gain as much as the others. Everyone who contributed got a road plus the respect of the other people, the guy who didn’t contribute, just got a road.

        • alexandre says:

          Yep. Well, you know, he does other things and you’ll always have these guys. It’s never gonna be perfect, but it’s not a big deal. Strangely he’s a mason. :-O

    • Jeffa says:

      your road smothered life

        • candlelight says:

          o que diabos? ROTFLMFAO!


          Thanks for the Jay Dyer links….. Ugh.

          I found a word in Portuguese to sum up my thoughts on the McGowans and Jay Dyers to explain the syndrome they suffer from: Assolismo!

          Nope, I’m not buying it. Too many instances I wince at their logic. I just don’t know where these guys are coming from? They don’t actually explain the mechanism, because they can’t. Much, or all of their shit is conjecture. I take it with a chunk of salt “for what it’s worth”. which is in the vicinity of minus zero.

          There’s more to discuss.


          I liked your fixing the road story. You might have a little the of Zapatista circulating in your veins!


          That link with Lennon and Yoko in bed singing “Give peace a chance”, and showing clips of massive ant-war protests, I had asked what’s the difference back then? You know what the difference is, nobody had any f**king cellphones! They were actually in the moment, they weren’t taking selfies every two seconds, and texting and talking and contextualizing it on their Facebook and twitterizing it on their twitter…. There was one clip where a girl was paying attention to something that she was shielding in her hands, and she had a look of concern, and I think because there may have been a little light shining on her face that my mind automatically thought, oh, the girl is distracted with her cellphone, and I literally felt disappointed (I forgot the scene was from 45 years ago). And then I noticed that it wasn’t a cellphone, it was candles she was shielding in her hands….

          That’s the difference between now and then.

          The algorithmic control exerted by technology wasn’t toted around wherever one went, as it is in today’s reality.


          • alexandre says:

            Yes indeed, candle. I’m suspicious because I am now, and have always been, a member of the anti-digital party since its beginnings, so obviously I’ll agree. And I miss that era like a mother***r.

            McGowan, our discussion gets funnier and funnier. Ugh indeed. Sorry about that link. That Jay Dyer guy baffles me. He’s very high IQ, read everything, handles philosophy like a simple Cmajor chord, and I can’t understand much of what he says. On top of everything yesterday I spent 3 hours watching Alex Jones on Joe Rogan – did you see that? (Alex Jones Returns!) It was like going inside Charles Manson’s entrails and guts and getting out of his arse covered in goo, I mean Jesus Christ! I had to light some candles for Buddha and take 2 baths, SO….I’m ready to not McGowan (as Pearl puts it) and go with you on that. It’s all just too exhausting, man.

            Assolismo! LMBO. Assholism def: Consistently anti-social behavior. Quê?

          • alexandre says:

            And Zapata, yes indeed. I think. Don’t know much about it, but the little I saw, I liked it.

            What was I saying? I spent 4 hours on Rogan. My god…

            • candlelight says:

              I started to watch the program you mentioned – Rogan and Jones – for all of about 40 seconds. Man, did that Jones put on some serious weight. Wasn’t he on a program to buff up and trim down with all those special pills he hawks on his websites? He looks like a guy who’s been doing some serious steroids, but quit doing any of his serious exercising. Jones is a queer guy, and Rogan is too full of himself. The only show of his I actually watched was when Rogan had on Graham Hancock, who’s at least scholarly and has researched some really intriguing stuff. Graham’s got a brain that’s not swamped by ego, eg., Rogan & Jones.

              Anyway, I took your warning seriously. You know, about the arse, about the goo? Hell, no, thank you!


              You say you love the Roses?

              Well, I love A. Rose. 🙂

              But, on just as serious a note, ha ha:

              I’m not so sure about the viability of anarchy on any sort of a large scale, let alone a global scale. I don’t see voluntarism working too well, either, beyond a singular community. In other words, two voluntary communities side by side, may or may not work out in harmony with each other.

              Anarchy and voluntarism aren’t necessarily interchangeable. Supposedly, anarchy is leaderless, while voluntarism doesn’t share that criteria. The members of a voluntarist community need only to be free agents, and not coerced in anyway to either join the community, or be restrained from leaving the community.

              Also, someone on one of these podcasts, explained anarchy, by breaking down the word “anarchy, saying that it meant without a leader, but added, not necessarily without rules.

              I say, once you have so much as a single rule imposed – written or implied – on any given community, you’ve got yourself a government, brother…. What exactly does a “rule” do? Isn’t one “governed” by a rule? So, anarchy with rules is anarchy with government. Some body, or some persons, come up with the rule, or rules, as they see fit. Even if everyone in the community can raise their hands, it’s still a government – a government unto themselves, perhaps, but, still a government. One hopes they won’t steal from one another….

              I absolutely agree with the Roses, that Governments do steal. Though, should we soften that a bit? Maybe they take your money and simply misappropriate it?…yeah, right. But, they steal other stuff, too. They’ve been known to steal sons and daughters, or rather, coerce conscription into their war machines – another way to fatten up their wallets, and their friend’s wallets. And to the extent that government is excessive with their legislation, they steal rights and liberties, unnecessarily….we vote these bastards in, and they just go haywire.

              continued below….

            • candlelight says:


              I thought Larken answered the first part of Libertydan’s question of “what would a world without government look like” really excellently. I’ve always closely held to the concept that nobody has a monopoly on ideas, and that was the gist of Larken’s answer, in a sense. Very clever of Larken to start with the premise of explaining what the world “wouldn’t look like”, eg., no one would think it a good idea of their neighbor’s to ship yourself off to go blow up some people you don’t know, etc. That was an anecdote A-well-told!

              But, the second part of Libertydan’s question was of the $64,000 variety – “….and how do we get there?” That is, how do we get to a world without government. Larken didn’t answer it.

              But, that, honestly, is a very, very heady question.

              Anyway, I like the title of Larken’s book “A Most Dangerous Superstition”. Maybe I’ll write away to get my autographed copy!! I actually have an odd feeling it may, indeed, offer some insights to silence my lingering doubts.

              Though, ha ha, I’ve never been superstitious:

              Jeff Beck ~ “I ain’t Superstitious”


              One of my old favorites…….

              • alexandre says:

                I don’t know why I watched the whole thing. Maybe I’m a self-hating jazz musician. To be fair Jones was almost making sense (a miracle?) about the break-away civilizations, two arms, NASA and the CIA Intelligence complex, something like that, I mean, I got what he was trying more or less to say – hidden government, two deep estates etc. Let’s say the aiming was more or less correct, but at the end everything out of his mouth sounds like War of the Worlds with cocaine on top. And Rogan is just boring. Yeah, don’t watch it. The raison d’être there was to help Jones with his problems about Sandy Hook, how he’s being persecuted etc and pal Rogan gave him a hand, some shit like that. Later Eddie Bravo joined in – and you had some flat earth in the mix. I guess we never get a power cut when we need one.

                Anarchism / voluntarism – ok, then, let’s call it an anarchist voluntarist society. Yep, don’t see it working in big scales – and who needs big scales anyway? Corporations, governments, egomaniac elites, Kings and bastards. At the end it gets down to the quality of the individuals. A group of sane individuals would make a sane society. Any system would work with sane people, and no system works with psychos. What I understand from Larken is that the job is to cure individuals from their collective fantasy, and when they’re cured, when they SEE THE LIGHT… they automatically are anarchists. That’s next to impossible (curing people from mass madness), but to strive in that direction is what one has to do. Anarchism, as I use the word (even if incorrectly), isn’t an ideology to embrace or a system to install. It’s the natural way societies organize themselves when the individual members are sane and normal.(By normal I mean “without the uncontrollable urge to invade Poland”). Old societies didn’t have a problem. The weirdos were artists and shamans, they had a mythology to support the society and whoever started talking about invading Poland was killed and eaten. Problem solved.

                I’m going to get Larken’s book also. As soon as I finish reading “1791: Mozart’s Last Year”, which will be around 2025, then I’ll attack Larken’s.

                Liked the Jeff Beck. Very nostalgic. Although not my cup’a tea, it’s good stuff.

              • candlelight says:

                You’re a slow reader, too?

                Funny comment about War of the Worlds with “sugar” on top. That’s probably the very least of what HG Wells used to come up with that novel in the first place. Doesn’t HG Wells figure into some corner of the den of conspiracies roaming around conspiracists alleys of the mind?

                Okay, so agreed. Anarcho-voluntarist society will not be big. No room for global corporatists, bankers, and other madmen, bent on sticking their grubby hands down everyone’s pockets. Strictly small scale, and comprised of only the sane?

                Now, there’s a problem here….Mankind. Some people aren’t altogether sane. Or nice. Or gentile. Etc. Etc.

                It’s funny. I knew this woman who couldn’t say enough about her daughter. Gosh, was she proud of her little girl. So gleeful to commend that her daughter was a “leader!”, in such glowing terms…. Wow, did that hit home for me. No doubt, the mother was correct about her daughter. The little girl definitely had spunk. But, in very unglowing terms, I knew this girl was, in actuality, a little, back-stabbing, nasty little bitch. Like a demon seed. That was years ago, and hopefully the little girl grew out of that stage. Who knows. But, my point is that given a generation or two, or three, the so-called, sane anarcho-voluntarist communities may no longer be composed of 100% sane individuals. It being just a matter of time before some natural “leaders” come along to spoil things, to fuck-up the works….

                But, maybe I’m being too superstitious?

                Though, I ain’t superstitious, it’s just that damn black cat keeps crossing my trial!

              • alexandre says:

                Aha, but after one generation or two of living in an anarco-voluntarist small society, little bitches wouldn’t be so common. You’re thinking from the point of view of our giant deformed maniacal society, where being bitchy (and much worse) is the way to get a-head. Sane societies would produce sane individuals, not bitches, in a kind of sane loop – society produces the sane individuals that compose the sane society etc. Of course there will always be the naturally weird (different) ones, but as I said, they become artists and shamans, so a) they have a place in society and live as they are and b) people learn from their weirdness – which by the way informs the mythology that supports the society. The few ones starting to wear military hats and using Google are then killed and eaten. RIGHT?

                And yes, I’m a very slow reader. Can’t find a good position.

              • candlelight says:

                I think there’s truth to what your saying. Sanity begets sanity, so to speak. In the same way that evil begets evil (not that I believe in evil, per se*), which we can readily see in the perpetuation of pedophilia, when many times the victim goes on to be the perpetrator.

                Oh God, a world without bitches? And bastards, too?

                Well, if they’re to be eaten, at least the anarcho community will never go hungry!

                May you never lose your idealism, alexandre!

                * To put it in a nut shell, I tend to think that what we take as being some sort of conscious evil in the world, is actually the lack or absence of conscious love, and the understanding that goes with it.

              • candlelight says:

                Rereading your post, you do have a caveat. Because you frame your argument in terms of having a successful “small” community.

                And, there I have to agree with you. I think on a small scale, a thoughtful anarco-voluntarist community could work, and work out very well. It could even be completely vegan. lol

                By the way, do you suffer from back pain? If you do, I have some simple advice for you. I had suffered big time with spinal stenosis for several years. And now it’s completely gone for a while now. Let me know what ails you.

              • alexandre says:

                Hi Candle. No, I have no back pains. Some times it hurts for sitting in one position for hours working or something, but nothing to shake a stick at (I’ll bet this is the wrong time for that phrase). I had some big troubles on the leg below the knee once and, after taking some heavy drug injections recommended by the doctor, with no effects, I went to a Japanese woman in Sao Paulo who made me sit in a kind of lying down lotus position and then she whacked my legs, one to each side until they reached 90 degrees. I screamed and yelled, I almost punched her, and after that, problem gone. She said my femur was out of place. Never had the problem again. That shows well the difference between real medicine and Rockefeller brainwash bullshit. Lovely 77 years old Japanese lady, about 4 feet high and a strength that you wouldn’t believe. I like to go there once a year just to have an overall adjustment. She’s a medium too.

                Small communities caveat, well, yes, I mean, it’s all theoretical and utopic, right? Today, with the internet, the digital possession, money, the global dumbness epidemic etc, I believe it became absolutely impossible to have any community at all, let alone one like that. Around where I live I’m positive it’s impossible. Maybe somewhere else, but if even the Quakers are having trouble, I’m not optimistic. I understand, and love, the anarchist voluntarist thing when I hear Larken and Corbett, but if you ask me if I believe it’s actually possible, I would have to say no. That doesn’t mean we have to then throw it aside and, following Chomsky’s logic, work on what’s possible in this system we have. Which for me is like saying … since the pedophile will not stop hurting children, let’s find a way to make pedophilia less stressful, more comfortable for the children. You know? If the basis of what government is is not understood, all political discussion is meaningless. One can decide not to think about it and do something else, but IF you’re gonna think about it, then at least think right. Don’t know if I’m expressing this very well.

                I’ll check the Charlie material now.

              • candlelight says:

                Well, very lucky for you, that you found the right sorceress. No doubt, with all the tricks up her sleeve, she could have well left you a cripple…. “Now, hold still there, alexandre, and let me wack you good!”

                But, that is the crux of the issue, being a slight bit bent out of shape, misaligned. It doesn’t take much. Like I was saying, I suffered for about two and a half years with what the MRI said was mild to sever stenosis. I was like one of those old people you see at the supermarket, leaning bent over their shopping cart, kinda pushing it along. I couldn’t walk the equivalent of a short city block without having to stop and bend over, squat ,stretch, whatever. It was such a drag. But, there were two thing I did. I got off my crappy fold-out bed, with the shot springs and the shot mattress, and began sleeping on the floor, on about 5 inches of foam. And also, ever since I was a kid, from the time I first had a wallet, I’ve always stuck it in my back pocket. And, as I got older, I started to suffer from fat wallet syndrome – not especially full of cash, but ID, credit cards, other cards, receipts, notes, etc., etc. And, it was, generally speaking, always pretty fat. But, from reading various blogs, I learned that by always sitting on that damned thing, it was actually throwing my spine out of wack. Since learning this, I carry my wallet in my front pocket….And I do believe that made a lot of difference. I remember how strange it felt at first driving without it in my back pocket – it felt as if there was a hollow under my ass. But, that was just an illusion. The fact of the matter was that by sitting on my wallet, it was literally contorting my spine.

                So, those two things. Nothing in the back pocket, and sleeping on a firm, flat surface. Much like the traditional Japanese bedding…. Hmm, I wonder if that’s how Corbett sleeps? Right?

                And oh hell, goodness gracious, I’ve probably used the better part of 500, already!

                Lemme know what you think of Mr. Veitch and the Love Police. My ass aches trying to figure that character out…… 🙂

              • alexandre says:

                Yes, one thing the old Japan lady told me was to be careful how I get in and out of the car. Usually you put one foot in and in you go, and she said that usually fucks up the bones – femur, back etc. You must sit in first and then bring both legs in. Getting out would be the same. But the two times I tried I felt like such a maricón that I disregarded that. A man has his pride, goddammit!

                I think I replied the Charlie thing, didn’t I? Where’s that post?

              • candlelight says:

                Marićon. Ha ha, funny!

                I know precisely what you mean; but, between you, me and the lamppost**, I’m telling you, if it happened to mean the difference between both getting queer looks from people and also feeling a bit queer, between that and going back to walking hunched over in pain, again, I’d opt for doing the marićon thing. Hell, I’d even give it an extra few little wiggles, – in and out of the car! – if that kept the pain at bay….!

                **”between you, me and the lamppost”, unfortunately, really doesn’t hold any water in today’s world. This particular idiom should be modified to now read – “between you, me, and an old-fashioned lamppost.” That is to say, one that’s not tricked out with Big Brother’s remote eyes and ears.

                Of course, I could have said, “between you, me and the bedpost”, but, you know, that could have sounded strange given the topic. 🙂 And besides, if there’s an Alexa, or any of her cousins in the house, the “bedpost” form of the expression goes out the window, too.

                Anyway, instead of my own failed stab at humor, check Victor Borge. Half comedian, half pianist. Old-fashioned and nostalgic. Excellent!:


                Oh, btw, have you located your post replying to Veitch and the Love Police?

              • alexandre says:

                Neither lamp nor bed, but “whatever post the party decides this week”.

                How many fingers, Winston?

                Between pain and maricón, go for maricón. It’s trendy, even. In fact I think I’ll have to pay heavily for merely using the word, which must be forbidden by now, I’m sure.

                Oh, I know Borge. Very funny. Fantastic piano player too.

                The Veitch post, dammit….where is it….let me check.

                It’s here:

                Do a search on Veitch. It’s down towards the end, the bottom, the bottom end of the comment section, at the bottom, near the end of the bottom, my god words words words…

                Is there a course on concision? I’d lake to take it.

        • Fawlty Towers says:

          Jeffa does have a point.
          “They paved paradise, put up a parking lot” …

  10. Jeffa says:

    main issue.
    if someone is causing harm without malice they are innocent.

  11. Jeffa says:

    Anarchy thrives.
    People are infinity saints.
    illusion the crapper.

  12. Jeffa says:

    Multitudes hear your reason
    kindly reverse the tumult
    set sand bars
    gate keeper

  13. mik says:

    I have a problem with a line of thinking “we can’t foresee how certain things will go in anarchic society” and “people will find and invent solutions they always did”.

    The latter is more or less ok, but the first is true in one way, but also in my opinion borders to intellectual laziness. Statists can rightfully reply, your anarchy religion is pipe-dream, you can’t even envision concrete solutions.

    Sure, if you just want to put a screw not much thinking is needed, although a screw might in some way interfere with current situation or future situation. Usually with bigger things we do thinking and planning otherwise things have tendency to go undesirable way, that is a fact.

    Therefore, from publicly outspoken anarchist thinkers I expect quite concrete proposals how to replace existing solutions provided by current system. Proposals not ten commandments.

    To much of thinking is oriented towards local, that is perfectly ok on short run, but on long run some solutions has to be found for bigger societal structures. Local is fine for survival, but it can’t accomplish bigger ventures and those bigger it can, certainly not efficiently. Going strictly small and local can only end up in sort of anarcho-primitivism.

    I said efficiently and one might relate this with technocracy, well, I’m relating it to comfort. Why to put more effort than it is needed? You can always bet, people value comfort very very much and at the end it’s about better system for the people.

    Here is a interesting decision making solution.
    Voting can be very different from democracy exercising.

  14. Octium says:

    This type of thing has already been covered before but this would be another more recent example of how government will not look after the environment.

    Evidence based science or prostitution?

    It makes it hard to counteract the government story if their research is done in well equipped labs full of stolen equipment!

    “About scientific prostitution, the impact of corporations on scientific research and how the dismantling of the environmental and human protection system in Poland has been dismantled, says prof. Janusz Mikuła from the Cracow University of Technology.
    Author: Rafał Górski – Poland
    Published: 25 February, 2020”

    • manbearpig says:

      In case people haven’t seen Octium’s link, here’s just a tiny extract (not indicative of the title) but there’s much more:

      “…11. Rafał Górski: And in the case of electrosmog? Here, the negative impact on humans is very difficult to prove, it is spread over many years.

      Prof. Janusz Mikuła: It’s very bad here. I know this from experience, because I was the head of a team that developed a program for the city of Krakow to protect residents from electromagnetic radiation. As part of this work, very thorough analyses were made of both literature in the field of techniques and technologies as well as literature on the impact on living organisms, including humans. We have determined that there are certain biological effects that the literature explicitly indicates that they can be the effect and are most likely the effect of electromagnetic fields. Not enough available of this is that there is a very strong synergy of interaction between chemical pollution, including air pollution, water pollution, food pollution and electromagnetic radiation and what happens with cell membranes and their permeability, and then respectively with chemical reactions in the cells themselves. American government institutions drew attention to this synergy quite strongly in the 1990s. However, the White Paper was created in our country. The conclusions of this study commissioned by the government are that there is no negative impact of electromagnetic radiation on living organisms. The question arises: “What is this about?” The “White Paper” was made, among others, by people from the “Uniwersytetu Jagiellońskiego“, in the medical faculty, where at the same time the Collegium Medicum treats cases of children with electromagnetic hypersensitivity. People who work with the treatment of these children were not admitted to the team that was preparing the White Paper. In my opinion, this is a classic example of where we are talking about: active governmental oppression. This is scientific corruption…”

  15. mkey says:

    Intense confrontation over anti-police hat at Santa Ana council meeting

    I think this can add something to this discussion. Badges, uniforms, guns and euphemisms can go a long way. Worth watching several times, quite a few gotchas.

  16. aab says:

    Questions for Corbett


    For a few months now when watching YouTube videos, there is a little pop-up telling me I need to review a policy they’ve implemented, and I’ve ignored it. This weekend I get a “Before you continue” message that completely blocks me, stating “We’ll need you to do this in order to continue using Google services”*. I therefore have stopped watching youtube from their platform. Am I mistaken in thinking that by clicking “Next” I am somehow giving my approbation to this Privacy Policy?

    *The entirety of the message is:

    “YouTube a Google company

    Before you continue

    To be consistent with data protection laws, we’re asking you to take a moment to review key points of Google’s Privacy Policy. This isn’t about a change we’ve made — it’s just a chance to review some key points.

    We’ll need you to do this in order to continue using Google services.


    Thanks for all your valuable work James,


  17. alexandre says:

    QFE – Question For Everybody.

    I’m confused with 5G. My sister informs me that there’s a rumor going on saying that the coronavirus is a cover for what 5G is doing in the Chinese city where it begun that I can’t for the life of me find a mention of on the web. The way I understand, 5G depends on as much as 50.000 satellites to operate (I read 19.000 before). I can’t find either how many were launched, so 5G cannot be operational yet. There are other “malacos” (wheeler-dealers) selling some other stuff as 5G, but it isn’t. Heck, a guy from the telephone company that came here 2 years ago said there were already 5G modems and it was fully operational. SO…what’s up with that? Are satellites being actually launched? If 5G can’t be up yet, the rumor about the cover up in the Chinese city that I can’t for the life of me find a mention of on the web couldn’t be true. I hear about 5G being deployed here and there. How can it be if the satellites are not up yet?

    As president Muffley said: “I demand an explanation!”

  18. mkey says:

    Carey unleashes a can of whoopass.

    The myth of “majority rule” & why democracy fails

    • alexandre says:

      And she’s a foxy lassie as well!
      Er…sorry, some scottish leftovers. I just watched Billy Connolly.

      • candlelight says:

        I don’t get it, alexandre? You’re an ad man. What’s with all these – as mkey says – whoopass truths being shouted out, like from a machine gun, a zillion miles a second, by some foxy young chica, who you might run into at your local charity gala? Black gown, hairdo, pearl necklace…. this is a psyop I can get into, man! Her words are true, but, fuck the words!………Talk about distraction!

        • alexandre says:

          I seem to have entered a kind of zombie state where I just watch, read, watch again, then go take a shower, than play some tune on the guitar, the watch some more – waiting for the next job to start. I don’t know. And I’m not an ad man, man. Please, call me vermin, but not that. I just had experience in the field.

          Now I’m watching some Dana Ashlie. The 5G thing starts to make sense, but as I said, I’m just taking it as a zombie. Remember that there are at least 57 levels in the “truth” universe. Somebody that says great things about 911 suddenly says anti-vaxers are criminals. Well, the person may be in the 23rd floor not yet knowing about the other 34 floors above. It’s somewhat like Corbett’s 3D chess, only it’s a 4D labyrinth. Something like that. Will drink some milk now.

          My suggestion to protect against 5G and everything else = tobacco!
          Brave or what? Sister, long years ago, read something about tobacco being bad for some technology, chips or something. Who knows…

          • candlelight says:

            okay, so let’s just wipe that shit out. No more ad man. Ad man gone. I mean like, heeeee is GOOOOOOONSSSVILLE!!!


            Ah, man. I used to smoke. Camel nonfilters, baby!

            But, don’t go making me thinking, hmm, tobacco? Me and my 5g, and my pack of Camels. Fuckin smoke’s gonna save the day, after all. SHeeeet.

            Gettin’ back now…..

            Yeah, with Dana Ashlie, I mean, I appreciate Broze, how he did a second look at Aslie’s work.

            C’mon, tell me she’s not a little, um, who know, ditzy….

            No, they have no need to defend themselves, Broze or Ashlie, from each other, or from themselves……[I don’t want to print lol]

            By the way, very quickly, 5G and Covid-19 have virtually nothing material between them, virtually no connection in the “physical” dimension. However, the only common connection these appurtenances have on any level is Covid-19 as contagion, acts as a metaphor, for the newly birthing “contagion” we call 5G.

            May logic and proportion never fail, and thus become dead.

            • alexandre says:

              Gonesville. That’s so American. I like that.
              I smoke the roll-it-yourself ones, with filter. If I smoke the normal one I get dizzy and ill, and they smell like poison like they didn’t before. There’s this one roll tobacco I can smoke. I’m awful at that, because I defend smoking, imagine that now. PAREDÓN! I played on a big band that was not that good. Then I found out why; no one smoked! A jazz big band where not one member smokes?? Only in this out-of-swing millennium. Jazz clubs with NO SMOKE! It’s like playing in a bank. That’s like a rock show without lights. A plane with no wings. A man without a woman. A PC without a monitor. I’m out of analogies.

              5G and CV? Man, when you finish Ashlie, and Corbett, and Derek, then go read Jon Rappoport, like this one:

              When you put it all together, then you go have a fag outside and think (that’s what fags are for). Personally – just my private inquisition – I wouldn’t be surprised if the virus didn’t even exist. Nor 5G. The advertising machine is so strong in this digital fantasy where we’re captives now that you could do everything with nothing. It’s just a matter of perception, nothing more. I’m not saying I believe it to be so, but it’s very possible when you consider the dumbness, the ad industry’s power, the mad religiosity in people, the divisions and mass madness, the perenial mind control, man, it’s a piece of cake to invent some story and do mayhem with it just with the ad campaign alone (text, audio and video). Do you have a microscope? Did you see the virus? Did anyone have a photograph of the virus? Have you ever been to Wuhan? Have you ever heard of Wuhan before? Can you measure EMF? Can you anything? No, all you can do is swim the ocean of info and more or less have a slight remote idea of a maybe of a possibility of a perhaps that’s not even likely but maybe it’s the best there is.

              As I understand this 5G-CV-Cover theory, the 5G roll-out there is what made people sick, so they invented the virus – as Rappoport says “Enter….THE VIRUS”. That would be the idea of this particular theory, right? But at this stage, my feeling is that this is getting too weird for someone like myself, like I’m literally too old for this shit. It’s getting out of control and I can’t follow no more. My mind is stretched to the limits as it is, you know, when you add all the rest of it. To say nothing of the ad infinitum repetitions. Zika, Ebola etc, and now this, and STILL this shit sticks? It’s Groundhog Day, and that’s supposed to be a film, not reality.

              I’ll have a fag now, if you’ll excuse me.

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