What Really Happened to MH17? – An open source investigation

07/20/2014243 Comments

by James Corbett
July 20, 2014

This post is intended as a round-up of available information on MH17 from various sources around the web. Corbett Report members are encouraged to debate and discuss the situation in the commments thread below, ask questions, suggest links, and otherwise contribute to this investigation. The article will be updated with information as the investigation continues. [Not a Corbett Report member? Sign up today.]


via Aviation-Safety.net

“A Boeing 777-200 passenger plane, operating Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, crashed in the Ukraine, east of Donetsk. All 298 on board were killed. Flight MH17 departed the gate at Amsterdam-Schiphol Airport, the Netherlands at 12:14 hours local time, bound for Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. It was airborne at 12:30 (10:30 UTC) from runway 36C and reached a cruising altitude of FL310 at 12:53 (10:53 UTC). Ninety minutes into the flight, at 12:01 UTC and just prior to entering Ukrainian airspace, the flight climbed to FL330. This altitude was maintained until last contact by ADS-B receivers of flight tracking websites, about 13:21 UTC.

“At the point of last contact it was flying 1000 feet above airspace that had been restricted as a result of ongoing fighting in the area. Malaysia Airlines reported that MH17 filed a flight plan requesting FL350 throughout Ukrainian airspace. However, the flight was instructed by Ukrainian air traffic control to fly at FL330.”


via ZeroHedge:

Flight paths via Zerohedge

Perhaps the best visualization of what the issue is, comes from Vagelis Karmiros who has collated all the recent MH-17 flight paths as tracked by Flightaware and shows that while all ten most recent paths pass safely well south of the Donetsk region, and cross the zone above the Sea of Azov, it was only today’s tragic flight that passed straight overhead Donetsk.

via New York Times:


A survey of flights to Asia from Europe in the last week found that some airlines had been flying over eastern Ukraine and some had been avoiding the area. Source: Flight path data from flightradar24.com


Ukraine’s Position

ITAR-TASS reported in June that Donetsk defense forces seized BUK missile defence systems from an army unit operating in the region, a point repeated and echoed by NATO Supreme Allied Commander Europe General Philip Breedlove in a Pentagon press briefing on June 30. However, this was directly contradicted on July 18th by Ukrainian Prosecutor-General Vitaly Yarema, who told Ukrainian Pravda that militias do not have access to BUK delivery systems or S-300s.

On July 19, Ukrainian intelligence posted what they claim to be intercepted communications showing Russian responsibility for the downing of MH17 along with an English transcript. Numerous alternative media sources claim that the creation timestamp on the video indicates it was created before the crash took place.

Ukraine also claims that a post appeared on the social media account of rebel commander Igor Strelkov exactly 35 minutes after the crash appearing to take credit for the downing. Subsequent reporting, however, pointed out that the post was ambiguously worded and the social media account in question may not be run by Strelkov at all.

The Ukraine security service also published a video on July 18th purporting to show the actual BUK missile launcher used to bring down the plane being shuttled back across the border from Ukraine to Russia. Despite the fact that there is no confirmation from any source when, where or how this video was taken, or whether it in fact shows a BUK system on a Russian transport vehicle, it has been uncritically reported on in much of the western press.

Alternative Positions

In a statement issued late in the day on July 17th, Russian President Putin said: “I want to note that this tragedy would not have happened if there were peace on this land, if the military actions had not been renewed in southeast Ukraine. And, certainly, the state over whose territory this occurred bears responsibility for this awful tragedy.”

A report originally posted to RT.com shortly after the downing suggested that the real target of the missile might have been President Putin’s plane, which was said to have been scheduled to fly over the exact same airspace as MH17 less than an hour after it was shot down. This claim has since been retracted and RT has noted that Putin has been avoiding Ukrainian airspace altogether since the recent coup took place in Kiev.

According to a report circulating widely in the alternative media, a Spanish air traffic controller working in the Ukraine on the 17th tweeted a series of messages indicating that the Ukrainian military shot down the flight and that “Kiev authorities” and “foreigners” subsequently took over the civilian air traffic control center overseeing the disputed airspace in an apparent cover-up. The twitter account (@spainbuca) of the alleged air traffic controller, “Carlos,” was then reportedly removed. [UPDATE: RT has conducted interviews with Carlos, who has been deported from Ukraine.]

Some researchers suggest that the timing of the disaster, coming as it does right after Putin heralded the beginning of the long-awaited BRICS Development Bank is more than coincidental. This theory posits that the crash was staged by the US/EU/NATO or other powers as part of a proxy war taking place in the “new cold war” between Russia (one of the key players in an organization that is seen as a key rival to the so-called “Washington Consensus” institutions, the IMF and the World Bank) and the US.

Some have suggested that the takedown of MH17 was also related to the six passengers on board who were heading to an AIDS conference in Melbourne hosted by the International AIDS society. The theory holds that the researchers were going to question the origins of AIDS and were taken out in a similar manner to Dr. Jonathan Mann.

Yet others point to the numerology of MH17, noting “Flight MH17, a Boeing 777, first flew on 7-17-97 and crashed 17 years later, on 7-17-14.” It has also been linked to a bizarre video of a speech IMF President Christine Lagarde gave at the National Press Club in Washington on January 15, 2014 in which she repeatedly told the audience to pay attention to the “magic number 7” and made numerological connections to WWI and other events.


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  1. Simon says:


    Interesting article fits with my thinking, the lack of information seems to be telling. What about the black boxes been in the UK for a week or more now? Voice recording could be telling if the flight was diverted or it other aircraft contacted the flight.

    This has fallen off the mainstream news channels, the story has been told by them (and I do mean story told, not reported)


    • alwhitesands says:

      For the past few days there has been much talk about and scrutiny of “the most talked about photo” featuring the section of cockpit which appears to have been riddled with large bullet holes which I guess in a normal investigation would undergo forensic analysis and in this instance maybe point to a fighter jet strafing the cockpit rather than a BUK as the MSM have been spewing relentlessly. But as reported in the above post from Global research via Simon that military activity near the crash site caused further wreckage contamination.

      “…On Saturday, the last paragraph of a New York Times story by Andrew E. Kramer reported that “the fighting ignited a fire in a wheat field that burned over fuselage fragments, including one that was potentially relevant to the crash investigation because it had what appeared to be shrapnel holes.” The shrapnel holes have been cited by independent analysts as possible evidence of an attack by Ukrainian jetfighters.” ….. Hmm that’s convenient

      And now for something completely different.


      Not forgetting we’ve already seen evidence of these flight monitoring sites manipulating their ‘data’.

      This Radar shows Singapore Airlines flight piggy backing MH17.

      • JBMetter says:

        I had linked to this earlier though Daboo 7’s delivery is certainly a lot easier to follow. The question remains, why haven’t the Russians raised this point? It’s their data and they have the most reason to expose the hoax.

        On a purely visual level this depiction shows a confluence of air traffic right at that spot as the “event” happens. If nothing else it appears it was timed for maximum confusion.

  2. greencrow says:

    I had typed a response to your post, jbmetter, but was suddenly “booted out” of the website…strange.

    What I was saying was that the non agenda-driven world has already reached the conclusion that the Kiev Junta is guilty of the take down…by dint of their failure to produce exculpatory ATC communications tapes by now. I certainly am confident of that conclusion.

    I believe this was a very complex and long planned false flag that was supposed to accomplish a lot of ends both local (Ukraine) and global (Russia). It was poorly executed and fizzled…so it has been “filed under forget” by the operatives…and their presstitute western media.

  3. AndyIB says:

    The downing of MH17 has raised a lot of speculation as to the cause, the perpetrators, the reasons for the downing, and a multitude of “evidence” which may be true or fabricated. A glaring “coincidence” which is hard to stomach is that the two airliner mysteries involving the same organization were targeted at Malaysia Airlines. Why and who had the ability to do so, and for what reason?

    The truth behind the operation may only unravel after a few years when the perpetrators have achieved their goal.

  4. greencrow says:

    Before It’s News has an update on the Ukraine Conflict that touches on the MH17 mystery:


    “…the other day a very senior GRU officer of the General Staff of Russia held a series of private conversations with colleagues from several Western countries.Expressed surprise at the claims to Russia from the United States, which for years arming and training around the world most of these terrorists, GRU officer came to the point.

    The point was in two main theses:

    1. On the intentions and capabilities of higher authorities officer;

    2. On its own capabilities and intentions.

    He told me that his boss has irrefutable evidence in the case of the Malaysian “Boeing” and will be forced to publish them, if the stream of slander from the White House about this tragedy does not stop immediately.

    Note that information about Boeing , which previously outlined at the briefing Russian Defense Ministry spokesman Lt. Gen. Kartapolov very likely kept deliberately left a gap, which could not fail to draw attention to its Western counterparts…”


    I would suggest reading the translation from the original Russian in full…if for no other reason than to enjoy a bit of the “black humour” of the Russians…which is not lost, even in a rather poor translation.

  5. JBMetter says:

    Hi All,

    In keeping with Questions For Corbett and the head up regarding a comprehensive MH 17 discussion I offer the following.


    Scott makes a clear case that the plane was never shot down and that the wreckage was pre positioned to allow the bad guys to lay claim to the gas deposits in the area. The position in relation that that wreckage was absolutely crucial. Scott’s point is that only pre positioning could assure that would happen.

    For those asserting the SU 25 shot down MH 17 as per the German pilot’s explanation I offer the following. In keeping with the goal of offering multiple explanations to sow confusion, what if the SU 25 made an approach and steep ascent to MH 17 but did not fire on the plane. Instead what if the SU 25 released chaff or other image confusing technology to make sure the plane disappeared off the radar screens. The pieces of the cockpit could have been shot (prepared) with similar ordinance before the event and pre positioned where they were found.

    Pros and cons.

    Pros: This explains the pristine luggage and passports, the invalid passports, the mutilated bodies devoid of blood, the position near roads and support structures, the video by coal miners, video of chaff deploying in the explosion over the debris field, photographic evidence suggesting MH 17 is really a cut up MH 370, and the linkage to the gas fields.

    Cons. Conflicts with eye witness accounts of bodies falling from the sky, video footage of a plane seemingly making a rapid barely control descent with a damaged engine and the fact that the Russian’s have not challenged the assertion that a plane actually went down.

    Looking forward to the podcast.

    • greencrow says:


      I have been troubled by the “pre-dead passengers” from the beginning…and think this could be a connection with MH370. Why have we not heard any results from the autopsies by now? There may have been a combination shoot-down and explosion of pre-planned wreckage. If they blew up a plane on the ground it could still result in “bodies falling from the sky”.

      It is an obvious false flag–due to the way the US has used the tragedy to vilify/sanction Russia. I think the Kiev Junta perps also wanted to create a “humanitarian’ corridor to the 400+ soldiers trapped and encircled against the Russian border. These soldiers ultimately surrendered and were taken into Russia last Sunday.

      • JBMetter says:

        Hello Green Crow, I enjoy your posts. Remind me, where are you writing from?

        In terms of the bodies falling from the sky, that depends on those eye witnesses. All it takes is one or two to be compromised and the story is established. Apparently there is some suggestion that this is the case.

        Interesting about the 400 soldiers surrendering. I had heard of a smaller group “defecting”. It’s hard to sort out the ebb and flow of that conflict. Is it a fair characterization to say that the tactic of using heavy artillery against civilians has turned the tide in favor of Kiev? Is this the basis of Putin’s moves in the UN security council?

        Here is another review article off of American Everyman stressing the “control” aspect of a staged ground event versus actual shoot down event.


  6. greencrow says:

    Hi JBMetter:

    Here’s a link to the story about the 438 soldiers who were caught and encircled behind Novorossian lines.


    I am posting from the “sunny climes” of Coquitlam, BC Canada. The fact is, the Kiev Junta is losing the “war” badly, soldiers defecting, supplies slow…snipers sniping at the US “advisers”.

    NATO will have to put boots on the ground soon or give up…it is a waiting game for both sides in that respect. Russia, historically has won wars by playing a waiting game and allowing the enemy to self-defeat…witness Napoleon.

    Re MH17 I do believe it was a very complicated/complex operation with multiple means and goals. I am inclined to believe there was a ground explosion as DAHBOO77 and others have reported. I also think there was an air shoot down as the Russians have reported…finally, I believe it was either a failed assassination attempt against Putin OR a warning to him not to fly internationally in the future.


  7. greencrow says:

    Did they bring along Nixon’s secretary and her “lead foot” (to erase the MH17 ATC communications tapes) lol



    U.S. military team in Ukraine to advise on MH17 crash probe

    published by Tom Sullivan on Wed, 2014-08-06 20:46

    A small U.S. survey and assessment team has arrived in the Ukrainian capital of Kiev to assist in investigation efforts into the crash of a Malaysian airliner last month, a Pentagon spokesman said on Tuesday.

    The team of about 12 service members will assess, advise and provide recommendations to the U.S. embassy and their staff about possible U.S. support to the Netherlands, Australia, Malaysia and other countries that are conducting Malaysia Airliner MH17 recovery operations, John Kirby said at a Pentagon press conference.

    The troops provide expertise in recovery operations — specifically communications, logistics and surveying — and they will not leave Kiev, Kirby said.

    “Recovery operations are something, tragically and unfortunately, the U.S. military has to do and has to be good at,” the admiral said

  8. 2rad4m says:

    US and Ukraine doing their level best to prevent any real investigation of the cause of the crash.


  9. greencrow says:

    It is absolutely stunning and shocking…it is paradigm shifting…that the Air Traffic Control communications data on MH17 has still not been released to the public and/or handed over to the investigators. Here is an update:


    that suggests:

    a) The investigators have not yet asked for the tapes

    b) The SBU claims not to have confiscated the tapes

    c) The tapes are not relevant after all

    All this suggests that we have gone down the rabbit hole yet again. In spite of all the truthers jumping on the plane crash and insisting that there be a fair investigation…the perps have won again…there IS no such thing as a professional fair air plane crash investigation anymore. They are ALL criminal acts and cover-ups that we can only surmise were carried out by a very organized group of international criminals.

    • JM says:

      Thank you for this update.

      I was really concerned they’d put some expensive data manipulation effort in to create an alternative record. However it seems this wretched affair was poorly thought through and now doomed to collapse.

      There should be outrage but since there isn’t at least there is another data point that may slowly coalesce in the mind of the sleeping public.

    • brassbits says:

      So they are bullet holes then? (quote from the article @greencrow posted):

      “The bulletholes these theorists said came from the fighter could have come from any 30mm weapon used by the rebels.”

      First time I have heard anyone confirm them as bullet holes. Also this is before the “official” investigation has released its conclusion.

      Ron Paul has been saying the US knows more than it is declaring (which I’m sure everyone on here would agree on):


      Which also makes you think that Russia should also have some pretty conclusive evidence on the matter. They have satellites (surely), they would have been monitoring the sensitive area where fighting was occurring and have picked up on such an attack, you’d think they would have had a quick download of the blackboxes (pure speculation). Yet Russia isn’t coming out with any conclusive evidence to finger the US/Ukraine. You have to wonder why?

      IMO I would say that it doesn’t suit their interests to do so…right now. It is a card to be played later. Apparently Putin is treating the 9/11 conspiracy as similar:


      And/or…it’s just a big show and everyone is in on it and the script is being followed all very nicely at the moment.

  10. greencrow says:

    I don’t know what James thinks about investigative journalist/blogger Christopher Bollyn:


    People usually develop strong opinions about him one way or the other. In the above post, he gives a new twist on the MH17 atrocity. As usual, Bollyn sees Zionists at the bottom of every false flag that goes down. And, equally typical, he supports his allegations with serious research and interesting links.

  11. ursushan says:

    And here is a report from Malaysia that is a summation of what the underside of US media has been saying about MH17 for a number of days now. Don’t want to jump the gun, but would like to know when the International Court of World Justice (does it still exist? do we have one?) will send for BO and Mr. Kerry.

    Will return with workable link…

  12. ursushan says:

    Link to Paul Craig Roberts re MH17:

    ———- Forwarded message ———-
    From: PaulCraigRoberts.org
    Date: Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 2:28 AM
    Subject: Washington’s Ukrainian Stooges Shot Down The Malaysian Airliner

    Washington’s Ukrainian Stooges Shot Down The Malaysian Airliner

    It is as we thought–another Washington crime and lie designed to drive the world toward more war.

    Malaysian press charges Ukraine government shot down MH 17

    A Thursday article in the New Straits Times, Malaysia’s flagship English-language newspaper, charged the US- and European-backed Ukrainian regime in Kiev with shooting down Malaysian Airlines flight MH 17 in east Ukraine last month.

    Read more:


    Suite 1100
    1101 17th Street NW
    Washington, D.C. 20036

  13. ursushan says:

    Sorry: I think the above is a prohibited “email notification.” Here is the link minus the other:


    Also, I just read greencrow’s Bollyn link: That information seems to be very well-documented… Wonder when the NYT, the Journal of Foreign Affairs and other “highly respected” mainstream publications will take this incriminating data up?

  14. ursushan says:

    I want to add that there is so much in this affair that cries out for elaboration. Washington establishment figures had their fingers on the criminal–Russia–less than 24 hours after the airliner was downed. That worked in the case of 9/11. Some 13-odd years have now passed and too many of us are still laboring under the illusion that box-cutting Muslims at the behest of OBL performed this dastardly deed. But hasn’t this trigger-happy tactic of naming criminal parties before the dust has settled become a little irresponsible? As someone pointed out recently, official finger-pointing before the first stages of an investigation have been initiated tends to cast blame directly on the one doing the pointing. The Journal of Foreign Affairs has been filled with articles naming Russia as the guilty party in the MH17 tragedy. Standards of responsible journalism, from what I have seen, are completely absent, so much so that this publication appears to be even more irresponsible than Fox News. Am looking for comments from others who may have more experience with the Journal of Foreign Affairs than I do. Anyone?

  15. ursushan says:

    Hesitate to add one more comment lest all of the recent comments will be mine, but I want to comment on the link greencrow posted above re Israel and the Ukraine. Bollyn’s information has the effect of making one’s hair stand on end. Have read that the NSA routes all of our internal emails to Israel which makes this even more concerning. “Bandit nation” fails to properly describe Israel if even one-quarter of what Bollyn says is true. And this propensity Israel demonstrates of simply murdering anyone who gets in its way has been suggested/implied elsewhere, i.e., the Danish demolition expert who was consulted about the apparent controlled demolition of world trade center tower 7 and who later died in a road accident not unlike the one that killed the journalist in LA earlier this year. There were others… things about which there can be no certainty, but for which mere suggestion is enough. The US government is supporting Israeli terrorism to the tune of 60 billion a year. Having watched the mayhem in Gaza over the past number of weeks, there’s no reason to mince words with respect to a proper description of Israel. Might it be that the Executive branch of the US government is unaware of the extent of Israel’s criminal activities? Is that possible? Is Israel leading us around by the nose? The US Liberty (?) Wasn’t that the name of the warship that the Israelis knowingly bombed out of the water in the 1960s, pretending they didn’t know that it was a United States warship? Again, if even one-quarter of these things are true we have a MAJOR problem on our hands. Sooner or later the US government must address the problem of Israel, the number of dual American-Israeli citizens serving there, what they did or did not know about the two lost Malaysian airliners, not to speak of 9/11… In other words, this would seem to be a completely untenable situation. And it doesn’t even touch upon the ways in which Israel via AIPAC interferes directly in questions of who and who should not be allowed to represent US citizens in the United States Congress: Cynthia McKinney? I’ve heard Dennis Kucinich? How many others have there been?

  16. Colin Green says:

    I have been quietly following this and have been wondering increasingly why the contents of the black boxes haven’t been revealed. The contents should easily have been accessed and analysed withing 24 to 48 hours.

    I can only surmise that there was nothing in them that was of use in smearing the freedom fighters or Russia. Maybe the contents contained undesirable radio confirmation of irregular redirection orders and/or reports confirming the presence of a fighter jet or two.

    Why isn’t the media following up on this?


  17. tumetuestumefaisdubien says:

    Here are links to threads we have at pilotsfor911truth forum:
    And this one with some my original research into the issue I’ve started there:
    It is quite startling that the pilots of the other flights, which were relatively very close to the MH17 when it was taken down and crashed (the Singapore Airlines flight 351 Copenhagen-Singapore – NW from the MH17 – and the Air India flight 113 Delhi-Birmingham SE from the MH17) so far haven’t reported anything, although if the plane would be indeed taken down by the BUK SAM they should see the characteristic condensation/exhaust trail of the missile if there indeed was any fired from the ground and there is also startling lack of other such witness accounts despite the trail should be there visible from wide surroundings. Instead we have multiple witness accounts that there was another plane closely tailing the MH17 below it and indeed there are unidentified primary radar returns just 3-5 kilometers NW from the MH17 at the time of the crash at the russian ARTCC radar. Also the crash debris field is relatively very small and quite inconsistent with fragmentation of the plane at the 10 kilometers/490 knots, which would most likely inevitably happen if hit by the BUK missile with relatively big 70kg frgmentation warhead. Instead it very much looks the plane must have been still relatively intact during its fall at less than 1 kilometer altitude given the relatively small debris field and the distance of the tail section impact point from the main debris field where the engines and wings were found (about halfkilometer from the tail section). This leads me to the suspicion that the MH17 wasn’t taken down by a SAM but by a small AAM or 30mm gunfire (or both) hiting primarily the cockpit of the MH17 and fired from the unidentified plane (there is still not completely confirmed hypothesis it was an ukrainian SU25).

  18. Bart Houkes says:

    I’ve been following this thread with interest, but haven’t had much to add myself recently. There’s so much information and side-stories that I find it hard to come to a conclusion as to what I think happened. I get tired and confused from investigating all the different angles and I guess that’s the goal of all the disinformation out there. However, it is pretty clear to me that Kiev/Nato/Shell/CIA/Mossad were involved in staging this event and that Moscow is not our ally in revealing the truth either.

    In the end the details of the event are not really important anymore. What matters is the effect that it created and the media propaganda they were able to build on this event. Truth is totally irrelevant in mass media, it is all about creating that image.

    Like Colin Green mentioned, it is remarkable how the media is ignoring the lack of information coming from the research team. More than 200 forensic experts are involved in the investigation, but not a single piece of information has come out yet. The head of the team even declared that it is no problem that they are not able to visit the crash site. They can finish the report anyway.

    The MH17 story is hardly in the news anymore. Now everybody is talking about the ‘Russian invasion’. If MH17 is mentioned at all it’s something like “we will never know for sure, but most likely it were those pesky rebels. Now, on to the weather report…”.

  19. Jason says:

    Googling : ‘MH17 Black Box’ i found contradicting stories.

    Around the dates of August 15/16, in general these stories are to be found (random chosen post):
    “MH17: Black box findings to be released next month”

    While the media stories circualting circa 27/28 July mention the following : (random chosen post) :
    “MH17: Black box reveals Malaysia Airlines suffered “massive explosive decompression”

    Either i am missing something or the fact that around 28 July there was information / data already released from the black boxes, but in the August 16 press outlets i get the impression no information has been released at all, pending till september.

    Any feedback welcome.

  20. Ukdavec says:

    A couple of links regarding the lack of feedback on the ‘investigations’.

    1. Good stuff from Pepe


    2. Word from the Dutch investigation


    The terms of reference from the Dutch are not good news for those seeking the ‘Truth’.

    Specifically – The Dutch Safety Board will not make any statements with regard to apportioning blame or liability, and these issues will not form part of its investigation.

    So, if they are not going to investigate – who will? Or is this a candidate for the memory hole?

  21. greencrow says:

    Here’s a video that I am going to post on this site (MH17) AND on the Ebola investigation site…Incredibly, according to this report, the two news stories have suddenly merged, with the information that Ebola researcher Glenn Thomas was killed in the MH17 shoot-down…just as he was travelling to a medical convention to discuss the Ebola virus.


  22. greencrow says:

    Sorry about calling him a “researcher”. Even to be a spokesperson for WHO he most likely has a medical/biologist background. Right?

    • Richard-Fitzwell says:

      Its all good. It’s open source, we are presented information and then we analyze it. At the end of the day, all we really see is what we want to see. Browsing the comments of that video, some people claim that his position as a spokesperson is just a cover story. For them it just confirms what they already believe.

  23. greencrow says:

    Here is another link to DAHBOO77 re MH17….it shows the radar evidence that there was a Singapore Airlines that intersected MH17 at the exact moment of the crash:


    I do wish that DAHBOO77 would be more explicit at what he keeps calling a “smoking gun”. He never spells out the exact implications of this…but using my own common sense I am surmising that the Singapore Airlines “intersection” was somehow used to cover up the “shutting off of the transponder” of MH17. I guess the theory is that there was no “crash” of MH17. What happened is that there was a pre-planned ground explosion of an airplane filled with dead bodies…made to look like an airplane crash. Then, MH17 (under a new radar tag) simply flew on its way. Since the beginning there has been concern about the lack of evidence of a mid-air explosion…although I believe there were some witnesses on the ground who said there was.

    Perhaps, like others, I am simply suffering from “False Flag Fatigue” and can’t bring my mind to “get into the heads” of the perps anymore to speculate on their methods and motives.

    • Bart Houkes says:

      I was subscribed to DAHBOO77’s channel for a while, but I unsubscribed, precisely for this reason. He puts up new scary video’s 3 times a day, which really contributed to my “False Flag Fatigue”. I feel that he just puts out every scary story he can find with words like BREAKING or SHOCKING in the video title. Where does he get his info? He doesn’t have access to special sources, he just scans the internet like the rest of us.

      He doesn’t really provide evidence for his stories, he just zooms in on the fear aspect. There’s no context or philosophy, just scary stories. I’ve grown very suspicious of channels that propagate fear.

      This could be a deliberate attempt at disinformation, but more likely he is in it for the money. He has over 100k subscribers and he puts ads on every video. You can make a decent living this way.

      • greencrow says:

        Hi Bart:

        Thanks for your comments. We could have another thread devoted to bloggers–their methods and motivations. My POV is that we all have different roles and strengths in this “business” of posting on the Internet. DAHBOO77 tells me about “bombshells” and “smoking guns”. I like to know about these things but I don’t necessarily accept his information at face value…all reports (including mine) need to be supported by other sources and cross-checked. The truth MAY be a grey area lying somewhere in the middle…which is why, I guess, James hit on this idea of having a place to post just about anything on the topic.


    • Bart Houkes says:

      Hmm, that organ trafficking story put some really bad idea’s in my head about motives to capture a plane full of people.

    • Jason says:

      @ Greencrow : I doubt that the airplane was filled with dead bodies.
      Being from The Netherlands and having acquaintances who knew several victims, knowing they where leaving on holiday that day makes it hard to believe that story. And unfortunately, they are really dead.
      There could be another angle, i’m open for everything if facts are presented.
      Although, knowing that the Dutch government has identified around 170+ victims now, i cant tell you if for example they have been identified as of yet.

  24. macburns says:


    Malaysia is critical of the US and Israel and is pro-Palestine. But in an article a few weeks later, Malaysia’s relationship with the US has been upgraded. We can read between the lines here, no doubt.

  25. Ukdavec says:

    More from the Dutch investigation


    Will the Dutch Safety Board be publicly releasing the content from the Cockpit Voice Recorder and the Flight Data Recorder?
    Investigative materials and sources of information used by the Dutch Safety Board in its investigations are protected by law. Only information relevant to determining the cause of the MH17 crash will be included in the final report. The available investigative information will not be released publicly in their entirety.

    Potential loop hole for hiding the inconvenient truth – and still no mention of the ATC data.

  26. danielsantell says:

    Perhaps this has been posted on this thread already – but here is an interesting interview with Ray McGovern, a 27-year veteran CIA analyst: http://thiscantbehappening.net/node/2423

    the audio: http://prn.fm/cant-happening-080614/

  27. danielsantell says:

    Not exactly the topic of this thread, but even The Council of Foreign Relations now admits that the Ukraine “crisis” should be blamed of the west: http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/141769/john-j-mearsheimer/why-the-ukraine-crisis-is-the-wests-fault

  28. whateverittakes2 says:

    Here’s a link from Global Research that contains some information I hadn’t read elsewhere… at least I don’t think it’s in James’s detailed report: This suggests that this was a purposeful attempt to create a false flag event and it failed. Global Research showed pictures of the cockpit some weeks ago that suggested that guns were aimed directly at the cockpit, the firepower coming from both sides. Witness accounts, however, spotted one fighter jet in close proximity to the Malaysian airliner, not two. But then this account mentions that the airliner suddenly veered to the left, apparently after being hit on the right. It is suggested that this may have been a purposeful and final attempt by the conspirators to make good on their plan, and that the airliner was finally brought down by a Buk missile positioned by Ukrainian forces in the area where they hoped to realize their faked plan. http://www.globalresearch.ca/mh17-verdict-real-evidence-points-to-us-kiev-cover-up-of-failed-false-flag/5393317

    I was not able to stay focused reading this–someone else who continues to be very interested in the demise of this airliner, please help me out. I was haunted by the sense that the pilots could see clearly what was happening and may have been trying to escape. In any case, this is horrific, and whoever did it should face harsh justice. I went to the JofFA yesterday to see if there was any retraction of all that BS they were writing for at least three weeks — and didn’t see any, but was happy to read above that the CFR agrees that it was the West’s fault. However, if that refers to the Mearsheimer article, it’s a very tentative admission; elsewhere, they seem to be spouting the same trash.

  29. Filip says:

    Finally, the interim report from the Dutch Safety Board:
    Most of the report is devoted to dispell aircraft malfunction or crew mistakes, but is still very interesting. All recordings end at 13:20:03 UTC, while Dnipropetrovsk ATC was talking to them (in what I suppose was one-way radio).
    The preliminary conclusions, according to the press release:
    “Flight MH17 with a Boeing 777-200 operated by Malaysia Airlines broke up in the air probably as the result of structural damage caused by a large number of high-energy objects that penetrated the aircraft from outside.[…] There are no indications that the MH17 crash was caused by a technical fault or by actions of the crew.”
    “The cockpit voice recorder, the flight data recorder and data from air traffic control all suggest that flight MH17 proceeded as normal until 13:20:03 (UTC), after which it ended abruptly. [T]he communications among the crew members […] recorded on the cockpit voice recorder revealed no signs of any technical faults or an emergency situation. Neither were any warning tones heard in the cockpit that might have pointed to technical problems. The flight data recorder registered no aircraft system warnings, and aircraft engine parameters were consistent with normal operation during the flight. The radio communications with Ukrainian air traffic control confirm that no emergency call was made by the cockpit crew. The final calls by Ukrainian air traffic control made between 13.20:00 and 13.22:02 (UTC) remained unanswered.”
    “The pattern of wreckage on the ground suggests that the aircraft split into pieces during flight (an in-flight break up). Based on the available maintenance history the airplane was airworthy when it took off from Amsterdam and there were no known technical problems. The aircraft was manned by a qualified and experienced crew.”
    “As yet it has not been possible to conduct a detailed study of the wreckage. However, the available images show that the pieces of wreckage were pierced in numerous places. The pattern of damage to the aircraft fuselage and the cockpit is consistent with that which may be expected from a large number of high-energy objects that penetrated the aircraft from outside. It’s likely that this damage resulted in a loss of structural integrity of the aircraft, leading to an in-flight break up. This also explains the abrupt end to the data registration on the recorders, the simultaneous loss of contact with air traffic control and the aircraft’s disappearance from radar.”

  30. jamesthethird says:

    Just one of those knock on effects when the EU impose their sanctions. A little sign of frustration?


  31. greencrow says:

    “Breaking News:

    According to RT


    The families of the German passengers killed in MH17 are suing the Kiev government for not closing the airspace if they deemed it to be dangerous….and….and this is the delicious kicker….the German fraud investigation company is offering $30 million for evidence leading to conviction.

    That might entice a few intrepid truth tellers out into the sunlight…of course they would have to assume new identities forever afterwards to avoid retribution.

  32. greencrow says:

    Posted about MH17 earlier this morning, but it is still awaiting moderation.

  33. TruthSeekerAlways says:


    One of the passengers was wearing an oxygen mask, evidence of something happening on board before the flight went down?

  34. Penelope says:

    In a False Flag (the govt really did it), they imm’y solve the crime for you: Think 9-11. They do this cuz they don’t want you to investigate who did it.

    In a Hoax (a non-incident), they give you alternative explanations to make you vociferously sign on to one or another. The idea is to so passionately involve you in determining WHICH that you never ask WHETHER it happened at all.

    LOOK at the scene & compare it to other plane crashes. http://killtown.911review.org/flight93/crash-comparisons.html Each of these crashes is unique, but universally when heavy objects fall from the sky they leave impact craters. They leave gullies that show their path; they gouge the earth. If an engine lands on concrete it breaks the concrete & goes partially through it. Heavy objects that fall from the sky cannot sit lightly on the soft farmland.

    The crash was on a chicken farm that had industrial refrigeration for the bodies, and buildings & hangars for storing the parts– even a boxcar sitting on a RR siding. The miners who collected the bodies all worked for one mine owner.

    At least some of the bodies may have been dummies: http://www.waldomason.com/

    I see no way in which Russia did not know that this was a hoax, but she may have been promised that Ukrain w/B blamed or some other deal if she went along w it. It’s worth noting that the real sanctions were announced the morning after the Generals’ press conference, when they were unavoidably committed to its being a real crash.

    I don’t know to what extent Putin & the Russians are free to act independent of the West or to what extent there is collusion. I remind you that US/EU removed the Turkish-border Patriots so that Russia could enter Syria & then “overlooked” the arrival of her materiel & construction until “too late.”

    I remind you that US/EU imm’y confirmed that the Sinai crash of the Russian passenger liner was done by the terrorists. It is even more obviously a hoax. The soft sand takes tire marks, but there is not the slightest dent under even the one engine shown. This crash was for the purpose of bringing the Russian people along with the Russian escalation in Syria. Why did the West help pull it off?

    In 2000 when Putin took office there were no Russian billionaires. Today there are at least 114. The 1% control 74% of the wealth of Russia. I cannot find a single Putin quote in which he criticizes the IMF/Fed system, neoliberalism, or the WTO. In fact he has praised them. When he praises the rule of law it is by way of praising the UN which is controlled by oligarchs including Rockefeller & which has an extraordinarily radical agenda regarding your liberty– but that’s for another day.

    I’m sorry to go along at such length but often people are tempted to overlook visual evidence when they can’t “explain” it & perhaps in order to SEE it you must entertain the possibility that Putin is either controlled or not truly in opposition to the West.

  35. Penelope says:

    Radar 24/7 listed the flight as cancelled. There was a NATO drill/practice using equipment which spoofs the GPS position of planes. A photo of an Israeli “passenger” taken at the departing aircraft was shown to be false. Strelkov reported that those who handled the bodies said they were long dead, bloodless, but those who handled the bodies were the mining company’s employees; I forget the owner’s name, a Ukrainian oligarch.

    The following is an Anna News interview w “Alena” who says she arrived at the crash site within 20 minutes. Interview includes still photos as bad as watching an autopsy. If you are sensitive, do NOT watch the video. I have summarized below what Alena said. Do set the English subtitles.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cx3vwOWyCvM Anna News interview published Aug 29. 2014 with Alena Kochkina (Алёны Кочкиной) reporter who was at the site with the rescue team. Anna News is embedded w the Russian/Ukrainian fighters. She says the vapors of formaldehyde were very strong, the bodies were Asian, Malaysian w only 5-6 kids among those she saw. (It has been reported that half were children). All seemed long dead , “sodden” (w formaldehyde I guess). About 20 were clothed, rest naked. She felt they were “mannequins”, no blood. A reporter present at two other crashes said there had been a lot of blood at those two. The clothes in suitcases were all winter clothes, the cell phones’ SD cards showed last photos August – October 2013. 18+ БОИНГ-777. Ужасающие подробности. 29.08.2014 / #MH17 – Anna News, August 29, 2014.

    I don’t think she is literally saying they are manneqins, because her conscious mind rejects what her subconscious is telling her; she may not know of the lifelike dummies available.

    Note the freshly-killed birds in this & other vids. The Yellow Macaw is perhaps meant to suggest the Phoenix or some sort of witchcraft?

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