WEBVTT

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The idea of the false binary. What an illusion of choice does establishes the

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baseline assumptions that nobody questions.

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This is part of the fifth generation warfare that we've talked about.

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Voting for the lesser of two evils is definitely an emotional,

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psychological trap that people are in.

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You're cheerleading for an insane ideology because you think you're winning.

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The role we have is media.

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How do we help everybody understand this is theater and you need to get back into the real world?

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If you're opposed to the agenda, you should oppose it regardless listen to who's selling it to you.

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Welcome back to the Independent Media Alliance. We're here to have a very in-depth

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conversation about the nuance of free speech today, something that I'm very passionate about.

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Obviously, I think everyone here very passionate about. But even within this

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group, I mean, I don't know for sure, but I argue there's probably variances

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on where we think that should be. And that's the whole point of the conversation today.

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Obviously, this has become very, very relevant for a lot of different topics

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we could discuss throughout this conversation.

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For me, it's sort of like going back to the fire in a theater point and,

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or even today with the idea of political violence being what I kind of argue

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is the new hate speech, you know, violence is a thing, you know,

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speech, but it's the overlay to it and, and where that line is drawn,

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you know, somebody going,

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making a joke about somebody doing something bad or somebody saying that person should be hurt.

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And, you know, the words are violence overlap and all of that.

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So that's the main point of today so let's get into it in general and why don't

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we just start off well i know we'd in the past we wanted to um briefly introduce

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each other you know if you guys want to do that today that's okay with me if

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you guys want to say anything real quick go ahead and go around,

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sure i'm not shy i'll jump in jason bermas independent journalist free thinker

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and i'll throw it to bros hey everybody derek bros here with the conscious resistance

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network happy to be here for another ima panel.

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James corbett report.com and uh i'll throw it to charlie,

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activistpost.com macroaggressions.io i'm les claypool and i play bass happy

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62nd birthday les little lake good job appreciate it,

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now i i actually don't know where the uh banner for our names are i'll tell

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me point that to me later and i'll try to include that but let's go ahead and

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start with um you know what i think is kind of the best starting point,

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which is the fire in a theater.

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And I'll kind of kick that off and where I think the, you know,

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for me, let me put it this way.

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I think this started with something that I already find to be a challenge on

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what the constitutional right is.

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I mean, the idea that it became this kind of line that was drawn well,

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where, which opened the door, the shoe in the door of the conversation of that,

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that allowance, you know, that words can be a problem in this circumstance,

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but then that becomes a nuance.

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Right. And so I argue that yelling almost anything we should get into,

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but just saying fire in a theater could be an accident, could be deliberate.

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Maybe you actually thought it,

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you know, either way that other people are responsible for their actions.

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So let's get into that, that main point and where we, and you know,

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what we think about that and the overlaps to it. Anybody want to jump in? Go ahead.

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I'll jump in because I hate the fire in a crowded theater line so much.

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I have hated it since I first heard it when I was about 14. mean?

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It is the most annoying thing I've ever heard on the internet.

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On the internet, it is the most annoying thing. Just think about what that means.

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It doesn't make any sense. It just throws open deliberate vagueness for anything

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to be classified as potentially offensive or potentially dangerous.

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There is no legal definition of fire. There is no legal definition of crowded.

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There is no legal definition of theatre. What does it mean? doesn't mean

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anything and it will be used a lot and it is used a lot they can just say twitter

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is the public theater and shouting fire is saying vaccines are dangerous and

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that kind of thing it it is deliberately vague to give people a tool they can

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use whenever they want to use it and i hate it.

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So i want to kind of throw in where my line is okay and i'm a free speech absolutist

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now i think the question is, where does speech become either criminal,

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in other words, prosecutable, or you have the right to take physical action against that speech?

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And my argument is this, unless somebody is directly threatening your life or

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others around you, okay, with force right there.

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You don't have the right to take force against them. I would say that the one

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exception, if that person is an authority figure who is directing others to take force against you.

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In other words, the general that is saying you need to go raid that or take

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that from that person and it is unjust.

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Otherwise, I'm sorry, words are not violence.

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You can say the most despicable thing about another person, about another entity.

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You can call for an organization to be burnt to the ground.

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You know, you can literally say, I want this person dead.

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And if you are not directing people to do so, that may be abhorrent behavior.

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Okay. But to me, that does not cross the line. And quite frankly,

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has never really legally crossed the line.

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They have constantly tried to take this idea of speech, especially in a public

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forum to incite violence and the causation so that they can criminalize that later.

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I think that is extremely dangerous.

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And obviously what Kit just said about,

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you know, there is no legal definition of what a theater is and can that be

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a public square has constantly been exploited in the rhetoric,

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not just in the last, you know,

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10 to 15 years of cancel culture, But I would argue, you know,

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you go back to the war of terror post 9-11 times and you had the same thing.

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I'll give just one really quick example.

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Michael Reagan, who was Ronald Reagan's son, had a right wing neocon talk show.

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Actually ended up having him on twice on this program for his work with veterans,

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I think on Memorial Day each year.

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He called for me and Corey and Dylan, the three loose change filmmakers,

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to be shot in front of a firing squad. That's his right.

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He had nobody that was going to come and shoot us.

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He had no way to get, you know, us to be arrested or into a trial.

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We hadn't broken any laws.

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If he wants to be an ignorant jackass and expose himself, I'm all for it.

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I don't like people hiding their speech.

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I don't like the term dog whistle or innuendo.

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Say what you feel. That's what we're supposed to do.

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Let's get a real bend on who these people are and combat that type of speech

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with better speech. And that will end my intro rant.

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Well, no, I mean, that's that's the whole point is that you combat speech you

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don't like with more speech and better speech.

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You don't do it with a billy club or a bullet or any of that nonsense.

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In the last five, maybe seven years, the term stochastic terrorism has been

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floated over and over and over.

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And it's one of the most nonsensical phrases that has been injected into the

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Western lexicon in recent memory.

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If you're if you're a violent person, you're going to do violent things.

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If you're a peaceful person, you're going to do peaceful things.

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Very rarely is speech going to be the thing that incites you to violent action.

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In most cases, it's violence being visited upon you first.

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And most people are reactionary. Most people don't wake up in the morning and

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go, I'm going to say the most insane,

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hateful crap I can come up with in order to provoke a reaction from people.

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There are bullies, sure, but 99 times out of 100, violence on the part of any

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individual is in reaction to what's been done.

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And so to claim, especially from the perspective of the state,

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that there are now phrases or words that we can't use because they may be violent

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when in almost every case, the state itself is raining down violence upon people.

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People is like literal violence, physical violence, whether it be bombs,

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bullets, whatever, you know, limiting rights. It doesn't matter.

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The state is an inherent arbiter of violence. And they're the people that are

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trying to say, oh, well, maybe your words hurt, but our bullets are fine.

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Whoever wants to jump in next.

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Who wants to go? I just want to add on to it seems like there's a bit of a sentiment,

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which I totally agree with, that the speech is not really the root of the problem.

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So I think with so many issues, whether it's speech or drugs or anything that

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people want to ban, the root of the problem is not the item in question.

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It's not the speech. It's not the drugs. It's not the guns.

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It's a much deeper, I'd say, spiritual sickness, emotional sickness.

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And trying to cordon speech or anything else off under force,

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under, you know, bans or whatever else, whatever government authority is invoked,

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it never really addresses the root problem. And I think the same is true of speech.

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I'd like to get everyone, if you kind of just, you know, chime in on this,

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unless you don't want to. We just thought we kind of like set the table.

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Otherwise I can jump in again if you guys don't want to throw in your thoughts.

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Well, going back to the fire in a theater analogy, Does everyone know where that came from?

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You know, that's a good question. I'm sure there's a president.

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The first use of that was a federal prosecutor by the name of Wurtz in the case

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against Eugene Debs for having the temerity, the absolute gall to make a speech

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suggesting people resist the military draft in World War I.

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And, of course, Debs' defense is free speech. Of course. If we've got a First

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Amendment, Congress shall make no law, right?

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And so the federal prosecutor said, yes, of course, there's the First Amendment and free speech.

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But what about if somebody is yelling fire in a crowded theater?

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That was the first ever use of that analogy.

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And it was then picked up by Oliver Wendell Holmes, who argued in the Schneck

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case in 19, I think, 1918,

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which was, again, prosecuting people for having the temerity to hand out flyers

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suggesting that they should resist the military draft in World War One.

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That, again, well, you can't yell fire in a crowded theater.

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That's where that analogy comes from. And I think that explains exactly what

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that analogy has always been about and what it has always been aimed at,

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which is suppressing political prevent.

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And James is always why you're such a welcome part of this team.

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And that's such a James Corbett addition to all that. I mean,

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that's fantastic overlap to understand that it comes from something that was

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not even about the actual threat, right?

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That's the real crux of that. But I have more thoughts. But go ahead,

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if anybody else wants to give their kind of overlay.

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Well, just to build on James's point real quick. Sorry, Charlie, I'll throw it to you.

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But this is the sort of the justification for the Espionage Act that has limited

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the ability for journalists to report on real things that are happening in real

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time ever since 1918. Yeah.

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Charlie, go ahead. Sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off. Yeah,

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a place where these words are actually going to hurt us is in the designation of domestic terrorist.

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You know, if you're using it to classify somebody like that,

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now we're talking about something totally different,

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where this level of speech in this current iteration post-Patriot Act America,

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where Antifa is being labeled as a domestic terrorist organization.

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Now, all of a sudden, somebody starts going around calling you a domestic terrorist.

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That's a little bit more than just an insult. It might be a legal designation

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that could get you killed.

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So this is something that I think we need to take into account moving forward,

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that given the world that we live in,

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and of course the right is enthusiastically cheerleading the Antifa stuff without

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having the ability to comprehend two steps ahead, that it'll be turned on them

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eventually at some point.

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But this is where the language and the words might actually be violence.

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You know how the left is always going on about words or violence and things like that.

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Well, if you get labeled of domestic terrorists operating in the homeland on

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the battlefield, that's more than just an insult. That might get you black bagged.

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Well, I would just say this though, Charlie, you know, I refer to a lot of bad

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people as gangsters, which they are.

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I called, you know, Joe Biden, Joey B for years before he had dementia.

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And you could argue that if I'm calling them a gangster, then you could invoke

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a Rico case against them.

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Or, you know, in the laws of the streets, he could be taken out by another quote unquote gangster.

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I would be just very careful about what regular citizens are trying to designate.

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Now, if again, you're a government official or you're somebody in power in that

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arena of law enforcement and that can actually be taken against you, okay.

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But let me say this, I also think that you have the right in the society,

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even though it is overly used, to sue that person for defamation.

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If there's somebody in that public arena and that gains traction,

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that you are, in fact, a quote unquote domestic terrorist.

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I would hope that you could get them on libel, you know, the same way.

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That they got, you know, libel case for that 16 year old kid in the MAGA hat

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who had a drum beat against him.

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And all of a sudden, everybody was calling that kid a white supremacist. Right.

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So, listen, I hate the language.

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I hate the designate. I think it's totally and completely insane that you would

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label any group a domestic terrorist organization,

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especially one as, loosely affiliated as Antifa is.

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I was covering the anti-fascists back in 2008, 2009 at the G20 when it was the black block.

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Back then, I didn't like people wearing masks. I still don't.

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It was one of the things that I thought was abhorrent in the whole COVID-1984 nightmare.

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I again feel like if you believe in your speech you believe in your cause let

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it show get out there at the same time you have the right to wear that mask

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and until it crosses into the level of criminal behavior,

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trespass destruction of property etc then it's not a crime uh and by the way

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those crimes are not terrorism right we have laws on the books you know i'm

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not i when i was in dc a few weeks to host that event.

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I went over to the George Washington Masonic Memorial because it had been somewhere

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that was really interesting to me. I'd been in the past.

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They had a big thing for Albert Pike in the corner.

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And I mentioned to the guy, I said, hey, what do you think about the Pike statue

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that was ripped down and Trump talking about it going back up?

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Now, I'm not for ripping down statues. I'm not for Albert Pike.

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At the same time, I don't think people did that to each other.

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Everything? How can you exaggerate it? And when you do that,

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you end up exploiting the entire general populace under authoritarianism, under collectivism.

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And that's extremely dangerous, in my opinion.

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It's such a good point, Jason. And Ryan and I have talked about this plenty

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when he comes in on Tuesday.

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There's almost always, if not always,

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existing laws on the books that address

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whatever issue is being thrown

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into the media sphere at any given point so if the laws already exist and you're

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now creating a new statute you're now creating an additional portion to it what

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you're doing effectively is sending a message to everybody else in on the planet going,

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we have new ways to come after you because the ways that we traditionally used

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don't fit the narrative or don't fit the agenda that we're trying to push forward.

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Now, I'd like to give Roy a chance to chime in on his thoughts and kind of the origin part of this.

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But if we could, I'd like to focus on like the principle because we will get

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mired in the examples, which I do want to get into, like all that because we

00:18:23.060 --> 00:18:26.320
all probably have 15 examples and how it's overlapping with policy.

00:18:26.320 --> 00:18:29.060
But where we started where it was about the like fire in

00:18:29.060 --> 00:18:31.720
a theater and like the principle of you know

00:18:31.720 --> 00:18:34.640
i get like i said the absolutist in my opinion being a

00:18:34.640 --> 00:18:37.500
free speech absolutist means there is literally no word that or

00:18:37.500 --> 00:18:40.240
sentences you can say out loud that means that you

00:18:40.240 --> 00:18:43.960
are because you have absolute you know your free speech can't be infringed so

00:18:43.960 --> 00:18:47.020
where do you you know the point we started with was fire in a theater and if

00:18:47.020 --> 00:18:49.660
you wanted to go ahead and chime in on maybe your thoughts on that basic premise

00:18:49.660 --> 00:18:53.020
and i want to throw in some more thoughts yeah i get what you're saying with

00:18:53.020 --> 00:18:56.380
all the examples and i think ultimately what we're dealing with here And I know

00:18:56.380 --> 00:18:58.260
this example has been used to death.

00:18:59.120 --> 00:19:02.100
1984, George Orwell. I reread it this summer.

00:19:02.240 --> 00:19:06.300
I watched the movie for the first time. But it's basically they're bringing

00:19:06.300 --> 00:19:11.640
in globally in each country the Ministry of Truth, thought police.

00:19:12.380 --> 00:19:16.680
And so, you know, today it's Antifa. Tomorrow it's anti-Semitism.

00:19:17.060 --> 00:19:20.380
The next day it's going to be the list is just going to get longer.

00:19:20.740 --> 00:19:26.040
And so hate speech is thought crime. And that's what they're doing.

00:19:26.400 --> 00:19:34.540
Essentially, they're legalizing these systems, Canada, Europe, UK, Mexico, you name it.

00:19:34.680 --> 00:19:36.760
And so I think that's really what's going on. And, you know,

00:19:36.800 --> 00:19:41.140
when we were all kids, we didn't really have these problems. Right.

00:19:41.480 --> 00:19:45.300
You know, I was just thinking about this today. You know, maybe people should

00:19:45.300 --> 00:19:46.680
be allowed to be racist. Right.

00:19:47.100 --> 00:19:51.000
But maybe there is that one exception of death threats.

00:19:51.220 --> 00:19:54.660
Who wants to be dealing with death threats? But I think ultimately what we're

00:19:54.660 --> 00:20:00.020
really dealing with here is the installation of the Ministry of Truth writ large.

00:20:00.680 --> 00:20:03.500
You live in Mexico. All of your neighbors are racist.

00:20:05.460 --> 00:20:08.040
Hilariously, casually racist. It's okay.

00:20:09.365 --> 00:20:12.605
So I'd like to throw in the, you know, so where I'm glad we can,

00:20:12.725 --> 00:20:15.005
it sounds like most of us have a pretty similar standpoint.

00:20:15.345 --> 00:20:18.925
And I, you know, if you, if you feel that there is like, like even say like

00:20:18.925 --> 00:20:21.665
a death threat, like, you know, it's going beyond fire in a theater.

00:20:21.845 --> 00:20:25.705
I'd like to flesh that out too. Like, again, I argue that we should go as far

00:20:25.705 --> 00:20:28.365
back in the print, like to the principle, which is that there are no,

00:20:28.505 --> 00:20:31.005
like, and this is where I even argue a lot of Americans probably disagree.

00:20:31.185 --> 00:20:33.805
And that's why it'd be great to have somebody on that might even want to argue

00:20:33.805 --> 00:20:36.645
that like the constitution is outdated and we should change it, which I disagree with.

00:20:36.785 --> 00:20:39.645
But that the argument is that if i say go kill

00:20:39.645 --> 00:20:42.525
that person it would be the person's responsibility who acted it

00:20:42.525 --> 00:20:45.245
out but like jason brought up an excellent point from that all the

00:20:45.245 --> 00:20:48.345
way down to something that's more benign the reality that

00:20:48.345 --> 00:20:51.085
we how this got manipulated was the argument that the government should get

00:20:51.085 --> 00:20:54.145
involved because the point is as he points out there's a legal process through

00:20:54.145 --> 00:20:57.085
which you can sue somebody for doing like something like that and it's always

00:20:57.085 --> 00:21:00.465
to the discretion of the judge now it could be obviously overturned if it's

00:21:00.465 --> 00:21:03.425
a ridiculous ruling but judges can quite literally rule pretty much any way

00:21:03.425 --> 00:21:06.225
they want at the end of the day and they could argue fire a theater.

00:21:06.325 --> 00:21:09.065
You could argue as the theater owner, that guy said this and it destroyed my

00:21:09.065 --> 00:21:10.365
business. You'd probably win that.

00:21:10.565 --> 00:21:13.725
But the case is for the government to step in and say, you're not allowed to

00:21:13.725 --> 00:21:15.725
say that because that might do some harm.

00:21:15.885 --> 00:21:19.005
Like that's where, you know, where that line, needs to go back to.

00:21:19.265 --> 00:21:21.165
And so again, I think it's all speech.

00:21:21.465 --> 00:21:25.705
If absolutist or just what free speech means, I argue it should be every single

00:21:25.705 --> 00:21:26.985
possible variation of that.

00:21:27.205 --> 00:21:29.885
But so like a death threat, for example, like we could argue under the current

00:21:29.885 --> 00:21:34.285
legal reality, which I argue would be unconstitutional, therefore Nolan Boyd

00:21:34.285 --> 00:21:36.885
per Murbury versus Madison, for example, 1803.

00:21:37.385 --> 00:21:40.085
Like that it's, if it's repugnant to the constitution, it's Nolan Boyd,

00:21:40.205 --> 00:21:43.625
whether or not it's been voted on by a bunch of unconstitutional politicians.

00:21:43.885 --> 00:21:46.245
But like that there, there's a line where a lot of Americans might say,

00:21:46.325 --> 00:21:48.605
well, you can't threaten my life. Like you can't act out on that.

00:21:48.765 --> 00:21:51.405
Um, you know, I, I want to get into like the Sue part as well,

00:21:51.525 --> 00:21:54.225
but right on that, any more follow-up thoughts that anybody wants to add?

00:21:54.785 --> 00:21:56.865
I'll throw something in there real quick.

00:21:57.745 --> 00:22:01.765
Um, cause I know we're not talking about the, too much of the current events yet.

00:22:01.865 --> 00:22:04.965
It's mainly just the principle, but it does kind of tie into things going on

00:22:04.965 --> 00:22:08.805
with Pam Bondi coming out speaking about hate speech.

00:22:08.925 --> 00:22:12.025
I just wanted to mention that when she was talking about hate speech,

00:22:12.145 --> 00:22:17.125
which a bunch of people on the right, thankfully actually were calling out over

00:22:17.125 --> 00:22:19.045
on Twitter on Elon's platform,

00:22:19.045 --> 00:22:22.525
she got a community note where people added some context and

00:22:22.525 --> 00:22:25.405
they link to a Supreme Court case where the Supreme Court

00:22:25.405 --> 00:22:29.145
ruled that is legal to justify or celebrate violence or

00:22:29.145 --> 00:22:32.465
to advocate or teach the duty necessity or propriety

00:22:32.465 --> 00:22:35.665
of violence but not incitement to imminent violence

00:22:35.665 --> 00:22:39.285
such as telling a mob with weapons to kill somebody so even under

00:22:39.285 --> 00:22:44.525
what's constitutionally legally allowed some level of calls for violence is

00:22:44.525 --> 00:22:48.165
considered constitutionally protected speech and that well that's interesting

00:22:48.165 --> 00:22:51.505
because at least if i'm not very versed in the case but the argument sounds

00:22:51.505 --> 00:22:55.905
like you're there and saying go get them and they all run out and go do something.

00:22:56.105 --> 00:22:58.925
Now- That's the line right there. It says like, so if there's a mob of people

00:22:58.925 --> 00:23:01.925
with weapons and they're about to lynch somebody, you say, do it,

00:23:02.025 --> 00:23:05.985
then that's the line, according to the screen report. That's a perfect example because like.

00:23:06.505 --> 00:23:08.925
I'm going to be airing it very hard on the side of the principal,

00:23:09.085 --> 00:23:12.925
but myself right now I'm going, like you could make a legal argument that that

00:23:12.925 --> 00:23:15.165
person would be involved with that violence, but see, this is the,

00:23:15.225 --> 00:23:16.205
where that line gets blurred.

00:23:16.385 --> 00:23:20.345
And so I argue today, even with something like that, because of the way the

00:23:20.345 --> 00:23:24.185
government is abusing these things, the only way to fight it is to err on the

00:23:24.185 --> 00:23:27.845
side of the principal, you know, and then who committed violence will be charged for that violence.

00:23:27.965 --> 00:23:31.405
The crime is why Charles Manson got put in prison, right?

00:23:32.445 --> 00:23:37.425
He, he didn't do any violence himself, But according to the state,

00:23:37.685 --> 00:23:44.685
he orchestrated, encouraged and then provoked and ordered the violence so that

00:23:44.685 --> 00:23:52.525
in and of itself should be viewed as a free speech case as opposed to any sort

00:23:52.525 --> 00:23:55.145
of actual physical crime,

00:23:55.305 --> 00:23:57.305
murder, anything like that.

00:23:57.305 --> 00:24:04.625
It became a conspiracy to commit, and that's how the court system entraps other people.

00:24:04.945 --> 00:24:09.905
But it's a very, very fuzzy area. I don't know if anybody has any thoughts about

00:24:09.905 --> 00:24:12.805
that in particular, but that's the thing that popped into my head immediately.

00:24:13.225 --> 00:24:16.705
Well, that's great. It's a rabbit hole we don't necessarily need to go down

00:24:16.705 --> 00:24:21.845
right now, but the Charles Manson case was probably CIA all the way down to

00:24:21.845 --> 00:24:23.705
discredit the hippie anti-war movement anyway.

00:24:24.125 --> 00:24:26.745
Right, right. But that's a really interesting overlap as well,

00:24:26.845 --> 00:24:30.745
though, right? So conspiracy to any number of things is arguably,

00:24:31.025 --> 00:24:32.825
well, that is a crime, right?

00:24:32.965 --> 00:24:35.565
But there might be a line where that would overlap, like you're saying,

00:24:35.665 --> 00:24:37.945
to abuse that to go after somebody for speech.

00:24:38.065 --> 00:24:41.205
But if you are planning a violent act and then people carry it out,

00:24:41.345 --> 00:24:44.785
that's a very different situation. But these are all really great examples to

00:24:44.785 --> 00:24:48.325
bring these things to mind about why we should be having this conversation.

00:24:48.545 --> 00:24:51.845
Because right now, I mean, we can go wherever we want. I just wanted to really

00:24:51.845 --> 00:24:54.385
get that principal point out there of all the different examples,

00:24:54.385 --> 00:24:57.365
you know because let's get into the millions of different ways we could overlap this

00:24:57.365 --> 00:25:01.045
with charlie kirk and all this been happening and the objectively obvious

00:25:01.045 --> 00:25:04.345
hypocritical stances of people that were 30 seconds ago screaming

00:25:04.345 --> 00:25:07.365
now shall not be infringed and now are making similar cases you

00:25:07.365 --> 00:25:10.845
know well there's one thing i don't think that we've really covered when we're

00:25:10.845 --> 00:25:17.485
talking about death threats and that's domestic abuse right like how many boyfriends

00:25:17.485 --> 00:25:21.425
ex-husbands have said i'm gonna f and kill you bitch or this and that and then

00:25:21.425 --> 00:25:25.545
gone and done it or went and beat that person it you know.

00:25:28.639 --> 00:25:35.079
And I'm just going to say that the legal system is such where you could probably

00:25:35.079 --> 00:25:38.159
get arrested if the person takes

00:25:38.159 --> 00:25:42.379
the phone call or has it on videotape and it's a direct death threat,

00:25:42.559 --> 00:25:45.999
direct threat of physical violence. But otherwise, it's extremely difficult.

00:25:46.479 --> 00:25:51.239
And obviously, it should be extremely difficult if you can't prove that.

00:25:51.239 --> 00:25:57.699
But at the same time, again, there are laws on the books when you make a direct

00:25:57.699 --> 00:26:03.759
death threat or physical threat against somebody, you know, that is realistic.

00:26:03.859 --> 00:26:08.299
And I don't think that that is overhyped. I think that we should have laws like

00:26:08.299 --> 00:26:14.239
that on the books, especially because we see it happen every day in our society and culture.

00:26:14.239 --> 00:26:17.579
And, you know, when we are talking about abusive relationships,

00:26:18.099 --> 00:26:23.659
you know, oftentimes it's very difficult for the female to sever those ties fully.

00:26:23.839 --> 00:26:28.479
So, again, we don't make it about terrorism. I don't necessarily think that

00:26:28.479 --> 00:26:29.979
that is a First Amendment issue.

00:26:30.139 --> 00:26:33.439
I don't think that you can repeatedly tell somebody that you're involved in

00:26:33.439 --> 00:26:37.579
that you're going to kill them without any type of repercussion.

00:26:37.579 --> 00:26:42.059
But, again, you put that in a context where you can prove it in a court of law

00:26:42.059 --> 00:26:44.079
and they will be prosecuted.

00:26:44.239 --> 00:26:48.379
And more than likely successfully so, and do criminal time.

00:26:48.979 --> 00:26:53.399
Again, we have to have these type of criminal deterrence. So again,

00:26:53.399 --> 00:26:57.439
when it's a direct person that you're involved in, you're calling for their death,

00:26:57.599 --> 00:27:03.519
I think it's different than if you're a psycho on the internet with some kind

00:27:03.519 --> 00:27:06.339
of ideology saying this person has to die,

00:27:06.579 --> 00:27:10.759
or that person has to die, or I hope Trump's next, et cetera, et cetera.

00:27:10.759 --> 00:27:13.679
As much as I don't like hearing those things I think

00:27:13.679 --> 00:27:16.679
that's a different thing from a

00:27:16.679 --> 00:27:19.699
direct threat to somebody that you know and so

00:27:19.699 --> 00:27:22.639
who gets to decide you know like logic like just logically I

00:27:22.639 --> 00:27:25.739
mean agree with you like I don't I I'm legally arguing we shouldn't be doing

00:27:25.739 --> 00:27:28.639
that but I agree with you in the logical sense because that seems like somebody

00:27:28.639 --> 00:27:31.899
threatening somebody but what if they're joking what if they you know how do

00:27:31.899 --> 00:27:35.019
you prove intent in that regard if you just basically have them saying that

00:27:35.019 --> 00:27:39.139
that's why and the government will inevitably and already is using those kind

00:27:39.139 --> 00:27:41.359
of nuances to drive in more restriction.

00:27:41.599 --> 00:27:45.019
So with that reality, again, my argument is that we err on the principle.

00:27:45.119 --> 00:27:47.099
And if he breaks the law, you charge him, evend your evidence.

00:27:47.239 --> 00:27:49.699
If not, then you don't charge him because there was no crime.

00:27:49.919 --> 00:27:52.999
The moment we create the crime for words is where we lose our way.

00:27:53.119 --> 00:27:54.239
That's kind of my stance today.

00:27:58.453 --> 00:28:02.013
Well i mean we could bring up plenty of examples right i mean we want some of

00:28:02.013 --> 00:28:05.933
the very obvious ones are like with like you know we can even just start with

00:28:05.933 --> 00:28:10.733
the uh oh you know what let's let's do this one quick since we can i chime in

00:28:10.733 --> 00:28:13.133
about the antifa thing that charlie mentioned earlier,

00:28:14.113 --> 00:28:17.613
because i think that this is something that um i think we're all probably paying

00:28:17.613 --> 00:28:22.553
attention to and have been warning people for years about the use of um domestic

00:28:22.553 --> 00:28:24.253
extremism and domestic terrorist.

00:28:24.453 --> 00:28:27.033
And I know Jason was giving the example of, you know, calling somebody a gangster,

00:28:27.173 --> 00:28:31.473
but I think that, well, especially now with that actually being a term,

00:28:31.473 --> 00:28:35.073
now you could be accused of being an MS-13 and you might actually get taken away, right?

00:28:35.173 --> 00:28:38.593
So it is almost rising to that level of being called a domestic terrorist.

00:28:38.953 --> 00:28:42.313
But I've been warning people for years that labeling your political enemies,

00:28:42.573 --> 00:28:45.633
domestic extremists, domestic terrorists, which has been happening the entire

00:28:45.633 --> 00:28:49.413
time Trump has been around since Antifa and alt-right clashing in the street,

00:28:49.593 --> 00:28:53.153
that it's just it's getting us exactly to where we are right now,

00:28:53.333 --> 00:28:57.273
where, you know, just the last week Trump designates Antifa's terrorist domestic

00:28:57.273 --> 00:29:00.613
terrorist organization, which, by the way, I know that we have a few people

00:29:00.613 --> 00:29:05.873
who might or have identified in the past as anarchists or volunteerists on the panel here.

00:29:05.913 --> 00:29:08.593
And I just want to read the first sentence of that executive order.

00:29:08.733 --> 00:29:12.593
It says Antifa is a militarist anarchist enterprise that explicitly calls for

00:29:12.593 --> 00:29:13.773
the overthrow of the U.S. government.

00:29:13.993 --> 00:29:16.253
I'm sure some here or in the audience have done that.

00:29:16.893 --> 00:29:20.893
The overthrow of U.S. government, law enforcement authorities, and our system of law.

00:29:21.113 --> 00:29:24.453
Again, it's not hard to see how that can be twisted to fit probably many of

00:29:24.453 --> 00:29:26.633
the things that some of us here on this panel have said in the past.

00:29:27.133 --> 00:29:31.393
And I think that's really what I worry about. Obviously, the Antifa thing itself

00:29:31.393 --> 00:29:35.033
is problematic and labeling people domestic terrorists, but it's that combined

00:29:35.033 --> 00:29:37.093
with the free speech conversation we're having here.

00:29:37.193 --> 00:29:41.773
And then how words like that or like anarchist, et cetera, are being thrown

00:29:41.773 --> 00:29:44.733
around. That really does, I think, worry me.

00:29:45.013 --> 00:29:51.233
Not that it's anything unexpected, but I do think we are now entering that territory where.

00:29:51.724 --> 00:29:54.664
It's not just the left using you know hate speech

00:29:54.664 --> 00:29:57.504
and stuff like that but now the right has kind of find their angle of

00:29:57.504 --> 00:30:00.664
how in the post charlie kirk assassination they

00:30:00.664 --> 00:30:03.424
want to use that to target people and i just think

00:30:03.424 --> 00:30:07.004
that is um it's taken us all the places we've known for years it was going and

00:30:07.004 --> 00:30:09.724
it's not going to end up good if people really embrace this so i just want to

00:30:09.724 --> 00:30:13.424
kind of implore anybody out there in the audience or in our collective audiences

00:30:13.424 --> 00:30:18.284
to do what you can in your virtual spaces and in your real world human spaces

00:30:18.284 --> 00:30:22.904
to discourage that as much as possible when you meet people who are talking like that.

00:30:23.124 --> 00:30:28.784
Really try to bring it back to a sense of normalcy and help people understand why labels like that.

00:30:28.964 --> 00:30:32.644
And then of course, accepting and emboldening this idea of hate speech,

00:30:32.764 --> 00:30:35.864
which I think many of us here probably have been the kind of people I know I

00:30:35.864 --> 00:30:38.884
have been for years saying that hate speech, hate crimes, these aren't even

00:30:38.884 --> 00:30:41.364
really a thing like that. It was a problematic from the beginning.

00:30:41.484 --> 00:30:45.104
You already have, you know, if somebody commits a crime, they want to make a

00:30:45.104 --> 00:30:47.564
special case that says, well, if it was because they were gay,

00:30:47.564 --> 00:30:50.044
or if because, you know, it's a racial thing, then that should be,

00:30:50.044 --> 00:30:54.424
you know, aggravated, extra charge, extra time, instead of just being an assault and a murder.

00:30:54.544 --> 00:30:57.684
So that was already kind of problematic from the beginning of creating these special categories.

00:30:57.824 --> 00:31:01.304
And the same thing goes with creating a special category of speech.

00:31:01.444 --> 00:31:03.824
You know, it's not just free speech, it's hate speech now, because it's,

00:31:03.964 --> 00:31:07.044
again, it's a specific group, or it's, you know, all the different ways they twist it.

00:31:07.164 --> 00:31:10.684
So yeah, I just want to encourage everybody out there who's seen what's happening

00:31:10.684 --> 00:31:14.584
to not participate, not buy into that, not feed into it, but instead try to

00:31:14.584 --> 00:31:16.424
pull away from it as much as possible.

00:31:16.424 --> 00:31:19.484
And my point was that political violence is the

00:31:19.484 --> 00:31:22.244
same thing i mean it's in principle it's the same thing right

00:31:22.244 --> 00:31:25.444
violence is something you can prove the violence but political violence even

00:31:25.444 --> 00:31:28.664
like you could prove in some cases you could probably prove that

00:31:28.664 --> 00:31:31.604
somebody hated somebody and that's why they acted our point is that's still

00:31:31.604 --> 00:31:35.364
just speech right violence is the same idea and i think it's just the new it's

00:31:35.364 --> 00:31:38.264
like the rights version of hate speech even though both is happening you know

00:31:38.264 --> 00:31:41.524
and so i'm glad you bring that up because clearly this is about hypocrisy and

00:31:41.524 --> 00:31:45.444
there are so many examples right now of people being driven and weirdly enough

00:31:45.444 --> 00:31:47.644
almost coming out in the conversation of like.

00:31:47.804 --> 00:31:50.324
Yes, we're being hypocritical, but it's because they deserve it.

00:31:50.424 --> 00:31:53.084
And they started it like that's the level of the conversation.

00:31:53.224 --> 00:31:56.524
I think Gavin McInnes was one that made that case very clearly and just argue

00:31:56.524 --> 00:31:58.444
that that's, you know, they're the real terrorists.

00:31:58.564 --> 00:32:01.344
That's why this is acceptable when they do it. They're lying about us like that.

00:32:01.424 --> 00:32:04.644
How do you argue something like that? Well, here's here's the thing.

00:32:06.024 --> 00:32:09.384
Antifa, according to all available

00:32:09.384 --> 00:32:12.764
paperwork and propaganda is

00:32:12.764 --> 00:32:19.364
an idea in the same way that the global war on terror was us fighting an idea

00:32:19.364 --> 00:32:25.564
not an actual group of people when derek highlighted black block yes that's

00:32:25.564 --> 00:32:31.964
a a specific group of people who all dress in the same uniform and all,

00:32:32.585 --> 00:32:37.165
show up with a specific intent to do damage or violence or something.

00:32:37.885 --> 00:32:43.965
Five years ago, five and a half years ago, Jason Bermas and I were standing in Washington,

00:32:44.165 --> 00:32:51.125
D.C., looking at a group of people who on one side was black bloc and people

00:32:51.125 --> 00:32:53.265
who would probably identify as Antifa.

00:32:53.465 --> 00:32:57.465
And then on the other side of the square, it was Proud Boys and people who would

00:32:57.465 --> 00:32:59.645
probably identify with people on the right.

00:33:00.065 --> 00:33:05.505
And me and Burmis are standing in the exact middle of this going,

00:33:05.505 --> 00:33:07.405
which way should we turn?

00:33:07.585 --> 00:33:11.445
Because it was sort of a cordoned off like alleyway type of thing.

00:33:11.765 --> 00:33:16.025
And we knew that we were going to get flack whichever way we move.

00:33:16.505 --> 00:33:23.225
You know, but all of those people had a hundred percent right to be there.

00:33:23.365 --> 00:33:26.225
All of those people had a hundred percent right

00:33:26.225 --> 00:33:30.305
to air their grievances where it becomes legal

00:33:30.305 --> 00:33:33.965
in my mind is when somebody

00:33:33.965 --> 00:33:36.965
goes and runs and throws a

00:33:36.965 --> 00:33:40.045
fist or shoots or does whatever

00:33:40.045 --> 00:33:43.305
that then becomes actual violence but

00:33:43.305 --> 00:33:46.425
two disparate groups of people shouting mean

00:33:46.425 --> 00:33:50.345
things at each other across the courtyard is fine

00:33:50.345 --> 00:33:53.365
as far as I'm concerned but this does

00:33:53.365 --> 00:33:57.225
kind of bring up a larger problem because now

00:33:57.225 --> 00:34:01.525
the state is attacking ideas that

00:34:01.525 --> 00:34:07.825
could or could not be manifest within an individual and you can't we've proven

00:34:07.825 --> 00:34:13.805
you can't fight a war against an idea you have to have a physical embodiment

00:34:13.805 --> 00:34:19.805
of that idea and that is now going to be disseminated throughout the populace.

00:34:20.425 --> 00:34:23.805
And it seems kind of the crux of that that can lead to violence, right? Go ahead.

00:34:24.765 --> 00:34:27.725
Well, I would just say, going back to the hypocrisy, I think that's very much

00:34:27.725 --> 00:34:30.505
the point of what we're going through right now, because we're not actually

00:34:30.505 --> 00:34:33.005
seeing anything new. There's not new talking points.

00:34:33.405 --> 00:34:36.525
Pam Bondi says hate speech isn't free speech, as if she just had that idea,

00:34:36.605 --> 00:34:39.365
but she didn't. That's years and years old.

00:34:40.345 --> 00:34:43.285
It's not hate speech, it's not free speech it's not free speech,

00:34:43.305 --> 00:34:46.605
it's not violence. We're talking about years old things, even domestic terrorism.

00:34:46.825 --> 00:34:49.805
Was first in like invoked years ago and was freshly

00:34:49.805 --> 00:34:53.205
invoked just a couple of years ago by joe biden about january

00:34:53.205 --> 00:34:56.405
sixes and then even about anti-vaxxers because again they

00:34:56.405 --> 00:34:59.665
weaponized the vagueness to be like well if killing

00:34:59.665 --> 00:35:03.725
four people in a building is terrorism there isn't killing 500 000 children

00:35:03.725 --> 00:35:08.885
because they didn't get their vaccines even more terrorism um what this what

00:35:08.885 --> 00:35:12.405
the last space of offense has been about has been corralling the pro free speech

00:35:12.405 --> 00:35:16.665
right back into the anti-free-speech camp so now everybody's in there no matter what.

00:35:18.506 --> 00:35:22.246
Maybe I'll just add that I think the technosphere, right?

00:35:22.406 --> 00:35:26.306
You know, we always had issues before the internet world with free speech and

00:35:26.306 --> 00:35:30.206
governments, but I feel like all of this is heightened because of the internet,

00:35:30.206 --> 00:35:35.006
because so many people can now put their thoughts online and have effect,

00:35:35.186 --> 00:35:37.626
you know, weaponize their thoughts.

00:35:37.626 --> 00:35:41.326
I don't know if you guys mentioned the recent example of George Galloway coming

00:35:41.326 --> 00:35:46.966
back from Russia and being held up for about five, six hours as a thought criminal.

00:35:47.006 --> 00:35:52.426
So I think it's important to highlight the technosphere aspect and the difference

00:35:52.426 --> 00:35:55.346
between policing thought, which is what they're trying to do,

00:35:55.386 --> 00:35:57.226
and then using that example of the death threat.

00:35:57.226 --> 00:36:02.386
If I get a serious death threat, I don't really get many death threats,

00:36:02.466 --> 00:36:05.366
fortunately, but if there's something serious where I'm in Mexico and it's like

00:36:05.366 --> 00:36:06.626
a cartel member sending me a

00:36:06.626 --> 00:36:10.826
message or something, then I will go to the police to deal with that act.

00:36:10.826 --> 00:36:16.286
And it's not so much about the authorities dealing with that, you know,

00:36:16.546 --> 00:36:20.766
speech online, you know, traditionally will go to the authority to deal with

00:36:20.766 --> 00:36:27.386
the potential violent act going around, you know, the internet. Yeah.

00:36:28.247 --> 00:36:32.727
Anyways, yeah. Well, Hervoy, I'm glad you brought up the technosphere side of

00:36:32.727 --> 00:36:38.127
this, because this is potentially a point of discord that may exist amongst us.

00:36:38.387 --> 00:36:42.347
I don't, for one thing, I don't call myself a free speech absolutist,

00:36:42.347 --> 00:36:48.167
only because I think that might convey to people a misapprehension.

00:36:48.867 --> 00:36:53.387
For example, if I certainly don't think anyone has the right to come into my

00:36:53.387 --> 00:36:55.047
house and start scribbling on my walls.

00:36:55.527 --> 00:37:00.067
I don't think anyone has the right to come into my website and start scribbling

00:37:00.067 --> 00:37:03.047
on my website walls, my comment section or whatever.

00:37:04.107 --> 00:37:08.607
No, there is no free speech there. It is my I allow what speech I allow and

00:37:08.607 --> 00:37:10.547
I disallow what speech I disallow.

00:37:10.847 --> 00:37:15.487
And no one can stop me from that. Now, of course, if you put free speech absolutism

00:37:15.487 --> 00:37:19.507
in the context of government, government can make no law against this or that.

00:37:19.627 --> 00:37:24.027
Yes, of course, I 100 percent agree with you. But private entities on private

00:37:24.027 --> 00:37:28.647
property can absolutely make whatever speech curtailment they desire.

00:37:28.867 --> 00:37:32.927
And people entering into that private property will either agree to abide by

00:37:32.927 --> 00:37:35.847
that or agree to get kicked out if they don't abide by that.

00:37:37.407 --> 00:37:43.807
And I asked this point, because this is where the disagreement comes.

00:37:44.087 --> 00:37:48.887
This is where people start saying, but the government already is in bed with Twitter.

00:37:49.147 --> 00:37:52.447
So or X or whatever it's called this week. so therefore

00:37:52.447 --> 00:37:56.227
it's not private property therefore the

00:37:56.227 --> 00:37:59.027
government can tell us what can and cannot be on

00:37:59.027 --> 00:38:03.467
twitter right and that is where i fundamentally disagree well that's what i

00:38:03.467 --> 00:38:07.167
think like where is the line drawn when you're talking because i totally agree

00:38:07.167 --> 00:38:12.587
with you right like if i if i'm even on my my youtube channel or or on my x

00:38:12.587 --> 00:38:17.787
account and just something is just so bigoted or so crazy I'll take it off.

00:38:17.947 --> 00:38:22.187
Or if someone's just spamming like pro-Trump or, you know, it's the copy-paste

00:38:22.187 --> 00:38:24.687
stuff, I just get rid of it. It doesn't even necessarily have to be bad.

00:38:25.127 --> 00:38:30.847
At the same time, does an entity like Google that has been,

00:38:31.267 --> 00:38:35.027
I mean, first of all, brought up through the intelligence apparatus,

00:38:35.387 --> 00:38:39.967
not only through In-Q-Tel, but NASA and DARPA, the National Library Initiative

00:38:39.967 --> 00:38:43.987
that has all sorts of defense department contracts,

00:38:44.427 --> 00:38:49.247
that has AI contracts that is in bed with them on quantum computing.

00:38:49.924 --> 00:38:53.164
Does that entity, because it's on the stock market.

00:38:53.884 --> 00:39:00.204
Classify as a private company that can do what it wants, when in reality it

00:39:00.204 --> 00:39:07.064
is literally financially and when you're talking about, especially AI.

00:39:07.764 --> 00:39:10.244
Authoritatively a government organization?

00:39:10.244 --> 00:39:15.664
I mean, if the question is specifically, can Google or Alphabet or X decide

00:39:15.664 --> 00:39:19.404
what goes or does not go on their platform, even if they are government sponsored

00:39:19.404 --> 00:39:21.064
or whatever? Let's get into this.

00:39:21.464 --> 00:39:24.304
I freaking love this. I'm absolutist on that point.

00:39:24.804 --> 00:39:28.004
They can decide what goes on their platform, even if they are government entities,

00:39:28.004 --> 00:39:32.604
because we have the right to not go on their platforms.

00:39:32.904 --> 00:39:36.224
That is our choice. They are private entities. we

00:39:36.224 --> 00:39:38.984
do not have to be on giving our information and

00:39:38.984 --> 00:39:42.044
everything over to google to allow oh and then oh

00:39:42.044 --> 00:39:45.424
well they're trying to censor my channel so the only possible solution

00:39:45.424 --> 00:39:48.584
is to create a government platform that's going to decide and

00:39:48.584 --> 00:39:51.544
arbitrate and say no youtube you can't ban

00:39:51.544 --> 00:39:54.264
james corbett or you can ban this person or

00:39:54.264 --> 00:39:57.744
you can't ban this person and there's going to be some sort of government adjudication of

00:39:57.744 --> 00:40:00.704
each person getting banned or not no thank you okay but corbett

00:40:00.704 --> 00:40:03.744
here's the the thing what we're ultimately talking about

00:40:03.744 --> 00:40:07.364
is a third amendment issue okay because

00:40:07.364 --> 00:40:11.024
google and all of these other massive tech platforms aren't

00:40:11.024 --> 00:40:15.144
private entities they're public private entities

00:40:15.144 --> 00:40:21.204
and they all have seed funding from the state and the third amendment says you

00:40:21.204 --> 00:40:27.584
have the right to not be forced to quarter the government within your home yet

00:40:27.584 --> 00:40:32.164
everybody with one of these is quartering the government within their home.

00:40:33.171 --> 00:40:40.471
This is a fundamental issue that I think people really could rally around because

00:40:40.471 --> 00:40:47.891
the government, the state, their soldiers, their minions, everybody has whatever device you're on.

00:40:48.391 --> 00:40:50.731
That entity in your home.

00:40:50.731 --> 00:40:53.911
You're not maybe you're volunteering to do

00:40:53.911 --> 00:40:56.771
it in terms of purchasing it but you don't

00:40:56.771 --> 00:40:59.811
know that as the consumer so we're

00:40:59.811 --> 00:41:03.371
all we all have forced sequestration of

00:41:03.371 --> 00:41:07.051
the state within our confines i

00:41:07.051 --> 00:41:09.991
find that doesn't have traditional argument has everything

00:41:09.991 --> 00:41:13.771
to do with search and seizure um however

00:41:13.771 --> 00:41:16.851
i see what you're saying and i don't disagree with that necessarily

00:41:16.851 --> 00:41:19.791
but i'm japan i'm in japan i'm canadian so

00:41:19.791 --> 00:41:22.551
yeah none of that applies to me really quickly on

00:41:22.551 --> 00:41:25.311
that i think this is really interesting point because i mean

00:41:25.311 --> 00:41:28.171
that's a little bit of a stretch but there's some logic there but

00:41:28.171 --> 00:41:31.011
i think it's like i kind of have i kind of actually take issue

00:41:31.011 --> 00:41:33.931
with the idea of conflating the idea of that digital space with

00:41:33.931 --> 00:41:36.691
our home but it's more of like the almost like the government's argument but

00:41:36.691 --> 00:41:39.451
i get where you're going with that like it's a router no no you

00:41:39.451 --> 00:41:42.331
know what's the motto i get it i get it it's a very it's an interesting point

00:41:42.331 --> 00:41:45.451
but i think you know it's like this is another really good

00:41:45.451 --> 00:41:48.231
dividing point like james is saying because look you would

00:41:48.231 --> 00:41:51.051
even ask this to james like so if you could literally prove the government

00:41:51.051 --> 00:41:53.831
was controlling the actions of that platform i think you'd

00:41:53.831 --> 00:41:56.891
probably argue that that would make the case for that it was government censorship but

00:41:56.891 --> 00:41:59.771
it's a very fair point to make and i've always made that argument about like

00:41:59.771 --> 00:42:04.851
you know what the principle of government censorship versus just people you

00:42:04.851 --> 00:42:08.231
know deleting comments off their platform for example it doesn't it's not this

00:42:08.231 --> 00:42:09.671
is hypothetical because YouTube

00:42:09.671 --> 00:42:13.831
just came out just in the past week or whatever it was and admitted.

00:42:14.031 --> 00:42:19.611
Yeah, the government forced us to de- or was pressuring us to de-activate all

00:42:19.611 --> 00:42:22.511
these accounts because of COVID, right? Wouldn't you argue that?

00:42:22.511 --> 00:42:23.311
I'm assuming I wouldn't.

00:42:23.831 --> 00:42:26.071
I've got another nuanced question.

00:42:26.825 --> 00:42:32.305
So that came out and I decided, you know, I was going to tag at Team YouTube

00:42:32.305 --> 00:42:35.705
on X and say, re-monetize my channel. This is insane.

00:42:36.305 --> 00:42:43.085
They've labeled me now for six years in one sentence as harmful content.

00:42:43.305 --> 00:42:49.025
And that is content that is controversial and therefore harmful to viewers.

00:42:49.245 --> 00:42:50.685
I think everybody hears that same book.

00:42:51.025 --> 00:42:57.285
Okay. But hear me out here. I pointed out how they are government-sponsored

00:42:57.285 --> 00:42:58.285
and a government entity.

00:42:58.465 --> 00:43:03.865
They're also government-protected for me suing their ass for defamation through 203.

00:43:04.485 --> 00:43:10.025
So what is my recourse? That's the question, though, Jason. What is the solution?

00:43:10.345 --> 00:43:13.485
So what are you actively proposing should be done here?

00:43:13.645 --> 00:43:17.365
Should the government come in and now tell YouTube or whoever?

00:43:17.525 --> 00:43:20.465
I don't think the government should protect them. So in other words,

00:43:20.665 --> 00:43:24.585
I should have the same right to sue them as anybody else.

00:43:24.705 --> 00:43:29.945
But me going in, I'm not only going against a megalithic corporation,

00:43:29.945 --> 00:43:35.105
I'm literally going against the national security apparatus that we know has

00:43:35.105 --> 00:43:40.725
been nothing but honest and gracious to us in the last several decades,

00:43:40.725 --> 00:43:42.765
if not post-World War II, James.

00:43:42.765 --> 00:43:51.245
So I think that we're in this conundrum where you can kind of scoff a little bit about what he said,

00:43:51.345 --> 00:43:56.145
but these magical devices are in everybody's home and half of them are directly

00:43:56.145 --> 00:44:00.405
associated with that organization, Google, Alphabet,

00:44:00.685 --> 00:44:02.845
YouTube, call it whatever you want. It's the same thing.

00:44:03.045 --> 00:44:07.965
And now we not only have these, but these are embedded with our children,

00:44:07.965 --> 00:44:10.285
not just through this, through the education system.

00:44:10.425 --> 00:44:14.285
Every single one of them has a Chromebook. In fact, that's so integrated that

00:44:14.285 --> 00:44:17.205
Chrome and Android have now announced that they are merging.

00:44:17.525 --> 00:44:20.085
Now, that infiltrates...

00:44:20.497 --> 00:44:26.257
I would say 90 plus percent of the youth in this country. I'd say there's probably

00:44:26.257 --> 00:44:30.997
10 percent of schools and homeschoolers that maybe aren't using those devices.

00:44:31.437 --> 00:44:36.057
And then I don't have a voice as an adult on an equal playing field.

00:44:36.077 --> 00:44:37.477
And I can't challenge that.

00:44:37.837 --> 00:44:41.757
I don't know that. And by the way, I'm not advocating for a government solution.

00:44:41.957 --> 00:44:47.377
I'm advocating government take away the protection so at least I can get in the arena.

00:44:47.377 --> 00:44:50.917
And i don't think are you referring to 230 specifically or

00:44:50.917 --> 00:44:53.677
is there some other protection you know i've heard people make

00:44:53.677 --> 00:45:00.157
the argument against repealing 230 i would say you know it should not get any

00:45:00.157 --> 00:45:05.317
type of special protection just like the pharmaceutical companies should not

00:45:05.317 --> 00:45:10.437
be having these etc etc just like if they want to say and they have ruled on

00:45:10.437 --> 00:45:13.637
this many times that corporations are people,

00:45:14.017 --> 00:45:16.137
right? I can sue people.

00:45:16.977 --> 00:45:20.817
So then I, anything that you want to sell on the stock market.

00:45:20.977 --> 00:45:25.077
What lawsuit would you like to bring against Alphabet? I would, defamation.

00:45:25.677 --> 00:45:30.537
Yes, defamation. You have blanketed me as harmful content.

00:45:30.937 --> 00:45:34.237
You have to prove that I have, I have literally produced harm.

00:45:34.357 --> 00:45:37.517
I have produced harm to nobody. Words are not violence, James.

00:45:38.057 --> 00:45:42.997
Like, that's the idea. Everything that I have never, not only have I never called

00:45:42.997 --> 00:45:48.557
for violence, everything I have presented, I've either backed up with evidence or

00:45:48.818 --> 00:45:54.738
I have said it's speculation. And when I am wrong, which is often I say, I got it wrong.

00:45:54.918 --> 00:45:58.578
I didn't think they were going to put the dementia patient in as the president.

00:45:58.578 --> 00:46:01.358
I got it wrong. I thought they were going to put Trump in prison.

00:46:01.518 --> 00:46:05.098
I didn't think they were going to try to shoot him. I think if you are an honest

00:46:05.098 --> 00:46:09.258
broker, you should have the same abilities, especially when these people are

00:46:09.258 --> 00:46:10.538
not being honest brokers.

00:46:10.738 --> 00:46:14.598
Right. And I know we're getting weeds of free speech. But the weeds are important

00:46:14.598 --> 00:46:17.738
here because specifically it always comes down to the brass tacks of,

00:46:17.898 --> 00:46:19.938
okay, so what specifically should happen here?

00:46:20.138 --> 00:46:24.458
And I'm not American. I'm not in America. So you have tried to sue YouTube for

00:46:24.458 --> 00:46:26.458
defamation, but you were rejected by the courts?

00:46:26.638 --> 00:46:28.898
I don't know that you can bring that lawsuit.

00:46:29.198 --> 00:46:32.178
I've talked to, for instance, not that I'm a rich man, but Renz,

00:46:32.518 --> 00:46:36.218
me and Tom have talked now for several years.

00:46:36.418 --> 00:46:41.418
I met him early on in the Reawaken America campaign. This is really before he

00:46:41.418 --> 00:46:46.038
even opened up to a lot of the things about the hate and lie shots, DARPA, et cetera.

00:46:46.398 --> 00:46:49.878
And, you know, I went over with him. I go, you know, is there a case?

00:46:49.998 --> 00:46:53.278
Is there a way to bring this case? And he goes, you know, there might be a way

00:46:53.278 --> 00:46:58.858
to bring the case, but you're talking about literally millions of dollars in

00:46:58.858 --> 00:47:02.558
fees and a team to go up against Google.

00:47:02.558 --> 00:47:07.318
And somebody willing to risk their career and possibly even,

00:47:07.318 --> 00:47:12.278
you know, them passing the bar and being a lawyer. Like, I don't like Sidney Powell.

00:47:12.498 --> 00:47:15.518
I'm not like, I was never out like, hey, the Kraken is coming.

00:47:16.398 --> 00:47:21.778
And, you know, she's the best. She lost her license to, you know, pursue law.

00:47:22.158 --> 00:47:27.078
You know, I look at somebody like Bill Barr. Is he ever going to lose his license to pursue law?

00:47:27.478 --> 00:47:32.138
I don't think so. And has he been an honest broker? I don't know if you guys have seen it yet.

00:47:32.918 --> 00:47:39.118
But for instance, the oversight committee did ask him about the first Epstein suicide.

00:47:39.378 --> 00:47:46.358
They said, you know, Epstein went to prison guards and multiple officials and

00:47:46.358 --> 00:47:49.038
said he was attacked. Were you aware of this?

00:47:49.238 --> 00:47:53.738
And again, not being reported on the media, he said, yes, I am aware of those

00:47:53.738 --> 00:47:58.058
reports, but I don't think they were true because of his mindset at the time.

00:47:59.295 --> 00:48:02.615
I mean let me let me bring in another addition to the the youtube censorship

00:48:02.615 --> 00:48:06.435
part like so it's interesting because yours you overlap with vit like you're

00:48:06.435 --> 00:48:09.155
harmful that's an interesting that's a good way to look at that but so let's

00:48:09.155 --> 00:48:12.415
take like mine or whitney's the same situation it was,

00:48:13.315 --> 00:48:17.595
specifically around myocarditis being possible through the shots which everyone

00:48:17.595 --> 00:48:20.395
knows is a provable case today not that i was saying every time but you can

00:48:20.395 --> 00:48:23.735
prove that's possible and we got censored for that and still to this day because

00:48:23.735 --> 00:48:26.075
of all this coming around i petitioned them like everyone did.

00:48:26.195 --> 00:48:28.755
And they immediately responded saying, we re-looked at it. No,

00:48:28.835 --> 00:48:29.995
you can't come back. Medical misinformation.

00:48:30.355 --> 00:48:33.275
And so there's a very different case there, right? So to Corbett's point.

00:48:33.755 --> 00:48:36.815
You know, it's a very, I honestly don't know exactly what I think should happen.

00:48:36.995 --> 00:48:39.175
One thing I think you can prove is that the government's involved,

00:48:39.315 --> 00:48:41.015
right? So that makes that government censorship.

00:48:41.275 --> 00:48:44.655
Now the company part of it being a private company, I think that kind of,

00:48:44.735 --> 00:48:46.415
that doesn't apply if we know government's doing it.

00:48:46.535 --> 00:48:49.695
But what am I demanding? Like you said, that the government should then allow it back.

00:48:49.835 --> 00:48:52.875
I mean, it's kind of a, like, I think the point is that new platforms

00:48:52.875 --> 00:48:55.915
that we should lean into we should fight to not allow that overlap but

00:48:55.915 --> 00:48:59.175
the dealt the dealing point should be the government being involved in

00:48:59.175 --> 00:49:02.015
any case i don't think suing a company whether or not the government's

00:49:02.015 --> 00:49:04.935
involved is going to be for i think our justice system our legal

00:49:04.935 --> 00:49:07.875
system is wildly broken for people that don't have a lot of money so it's

00:49:07.875 --> 00:49:10.695
all it's a whole different conversation but so that changes a little bit right

00:49:10.695 --> 00:49:13.775
so i just i mean what do you think james what would be your solution and

00:49:13.775 --> 00:49:16.735
if as a u.s citizen in that situation or you know what

00:49:16.735 --> 00:49:19.555
you think would make i don't know if i can imagine myself as an american

00:49:19.555 --> 00:49:22.435
but i am a canadian in japan who had my channel

00:49:22.435 --> 00:49:25.695
taken down for years because they said whatever oh

00:49:25.695 --> 00:49:28.675
this is you know unallowable content and then after a

00:49:28.675 --> 00:49:31.535
few years they said hey guess what we were wrong oops

00:49:31.535 --> 00:49:34.675
sorry here's your channel back okay yay wonderful um yeah

00:49:34.675 --> 00:49:39.775
so what's my solution to that it is certainly not to beg the u.s government

00:49:39.775 --> 00:49:43.755
to be some sort of adjudicator in this or something no obviously government

00:49:43.755 --> 00:49:49.955
action interaction with these platforms is the problem itself um so the only

00:49:49.955 --> 00:49:52.175
solution is to get government out of these platforms.

00:49:52.455 --> 00:49:56.775
I don't have much of an ability to do that on my side, by myself, anyway.

00:49:57.315 --> 00:50:03.955
So what- Are we not moving in the opposite direction, especially with this TikTok hype, right?

00:50:04.595 --> 00:50:09.175
To me, totally, we're starting to, on a grand level, it doesn't matter what

00:50:09.175 --> 00:50:12.575
side you're on, just accept this techno-fascism.

00:50:13.055 --> 00:50:18.495
Which is handed TikTok to a CIA contractor that is a dyed-in-the-wool Zionist

00:50:18.495 --> 00:50:22.715
who shares information on the regular with the IOF.

00:50:23.855 --> 00:50:29.095
I mean, I totally agree with you. I mean, again, this is the big issue because

00:50:29.095 --> 00:50:33.675
right for let me give you another news story that there's only it's only on the peripheral.

00:50:33.835 --> 00:50:38.035
Are you guys aware of the hood Barack emails that got hacked with Epstein?

00:50:38.375 --> 00:50:42.055
I mean, it's almost nowhere. I haven't even been able to find the raw files.

00:50:42.215 --> 00:50:47.575
I'm reading other reports on it. But it's I mean, it's proving that,

00:50:47.715 --> 00:50:51.635
again, Epstein was very, very involved in international relations,

00:50:51.915 --> 00:50:55.055
especially with Israel and the Middle East, brokering these deals.

00:50:55.215 --> 00:50:58.655
And as I've argued before, remember, a hood. Barack wasn't just the prime minister.

00:50:58.815 --> 00:51:00.155
He was the defense minister.

00:51:00.335 --> 00:51:03.155
This guy's an arms dealer. Everybody's wondering where his money came from.

00:51:03.415 --> 00:51:06.775
Really good. The additional point to that and go right back to you is that this

00:51:06.775 --> 00:51:09.955
was Ryan Grimm and Dropside News had a really great article about this.

00:51:10.615 --> 00:51:13.695
Through the Mongolia point was about them was Epstein

00:51:13.695 --> 00:51:17.495
facilitating Israel startup nation pop-up companies

00:51:17.495 --> 00:51:20.375
that they literally use as front companies that they admitted to 60

00:51:20.375 --> 00:51:24.315
minutes after the pager attack right that's a really big deal that's the infiltration

00:51:24.315 --> 00:51:27.635
go ahead I just want to make sure that I'm glad you made that point because

00:51:27.635 --> 00:51:32.215
again it's it's this it's this layer and facade of government I still have gotten

00:51:32.215 --> 00:51:39.035
no uh answers and I and I'm shame shame on me but even most of alternative media,

00:51:39.115 --> 00:51:43.315
not digging into the signature reduction program that never went away, right?

00:51:43.415 --> 00:51:48.795
I mean, we all know that this intelligence network, I guess we'll call it,

00:51:48.915 --> 00:51:53.355
because signature reduction is not an official name. They refer to it as an art form.

00:51:53.495 --> 00:51:59.035
It's been going on for literally 15 years with no hearings, no oversight from

00:51:59.035 --> 00:52:02.195
the Senate, no oversight from the Intelligence Committee, and they admit there

00:52:02.195 --> 00:52:06.835
are 60,000 of these people online and in person. And that's four years ago.

00:52:06.955 --> 00:52:09.555
And they're embedded in the biggest companies.

00:52:09.755 --> 00:52:13.995
So you're telling me they're not embedded in Google X, Meta,

00:52:14.415 --> 00:52:18.275
TikTok, of course, just like they're embedded in Raytheon, Lockheed Martin,

00:52:18.555 --> 00:52:20.495
just like they're embedded in BlackRock.

00:52:20.675 --> 00:52:22.735
They're embedded in all these goddamn things.

00:52:22.915 --> 00:52:27.555
OK, and, you know, Palantir is another extension of that. You know, this.

00:52:28.735 --> 00:52:34.435
I think that's one of the big issues with this free speech idea is that we are

00:52:34.435 --> 00:52:38.335
so far down that techno-fascistic rabbit hole.

00:52:38.675 --> 00:52:42.015
What is a private company? What is the government?

00:52:42.255 --> 00:52:47.595
And have we had any type of actual criminal accountability at high levels on

00:52:47.595 --> 00:52:51.255
either in my lifetime? And I'm a 46-year-old man.

00:52:51.815 --> 00:52:56.755
Haven't seen much. I'm still – I guess that's the real point here.

00:52:56.755 --> 00:53:02.455
I don't know that we're going to go in the direction of actual free speech unless

00:53:02.455 --> 00:53:07.995
we're able to get some type of criminal accountability for this type of behavior

00:53:07.995 --> 00:53:11.355
for individuals that are doing it.

00:53:11.515 --> 00:53:13.855
And I think Epstein is one of those individuals.

00:53:14.115 --> 00:53:18.155
We never got a criminal trial. We never fleshed anything out.

00:53:18.415 --> 00:53:23.395
It's still I think if we did, we would have actual insight to some of these

00:53:23.395 --> 00:53:26.535
people and people would demand that. but I haven't seen us get there.

00:53:26.655 --> 00:53:30.675
We haven't even really gotten to a trial where those ideas are explored.

00:53:30.895 --> 00:53:35.615
You look at the Ghislaine Maxwell trial and they truncated that as far as they

00:53:35.615 --> 00:53:41.775
could into, you know, human trafficking, essentially to Epstein alone. Right.

00:53:42.035 --> 00:53:45.215
You bring up like the, like I, this is one of the things I wanted to get to

00:53:45.215 --> 00:53:48.755
in this conversation was that very perfect point about the pro the public private

00:53:48.755 --> 00:53:52.775
partnership, the, the fascistic discussion, like we have seen the corporate

00:53:52.775 --> 00:53:54.535
world blend with the government right in front of us.

00:53:54.615 --> 00:53:58.695
And so So that obviously changes the conversation, right? So it's a...

00:53:59.100 --> 00:54:01.920
All of these are problems, not to say we're going to solve them on this conversation,

00:54:01.920 --> 00:54:05.680
but it's important to identify that that very issue is one of the reasons why

00:54:05.680 --> 00:54:10.040
this is so difficult, because we can't discern what where that line is from the government side.

00:54:10.280 --> 00:54:13.180
So what anybody's thoughts on how you go forward with that?

00:54:13.320 --> 00:54:16.900
I was just going to make that point, because I agree with James that for all

00:54:16.900 --> 00:54:20.880
intents and purposes, let's say all these platforms are private, Google, big tech.

00:54:22.040 --> 00:54:24.760
But what happens? OK, they take you down from Google. You know,

00:54:24.840 --> 00:54:26.160
you go to Microsoft, they take you down.

00:54:26.220 --> 00:54:28.980
You go to that, you know, anywhere. there's nowhere to go

00:54:28.980 --> 00:54:32.040
and even if you have your own website um google

00:54:32.040 --> 00:54:35.260
delists you and so nobody can see you and now you

00:54:35.260 --> 00:54:38.160
know we've left any semblance of a republic or

00:54:38.160 --> 00:54:41.860
government and this is totalitarianism and i can use you know because i'm here

00:54:41.860 --> 00:54:45.100
in mexico i can think of these examples all day look at the analog world let's

00:54:45.100 --> 00:54:49.560
say i go to a public plaza the cartel zone i go to another corner another cartel

00:54:49.560 --> 00:54:54.400
is there and so now the issue becomes well now you're living under fascism or

00:54:54.400 --> 00:54:57.400
oligarchy or mafia or cartel.

00:54:57.540 --> 00:55:00.680
And now we've got another problem to deal with.

00:55:01.140 --> 00:55:06.340
Okay, well, let's look at Trump's inauguration

00:55:06.340 --> 00:55:09.560
and the front row of Trump's

00:55:09.560 --> 00:55:13.000
inauguration where you had

00:55:13.000 --> 00:55:16.880
defense contractor slash social

00:55:16.880 --> 00:55:20.460
media CEO standing next to defense

00:55:20.460 --> 00:55:23.800
contractor slash social media CEO

00:55:23.800 --> 00:55:29.200
Standing next to defense contractor slash social media CEO And so on and so

00:55:29.200 --> 00:55:34.820
forth Let's look at the parade that they had in the UK Just a couple of weeks

00:55:34.820 --> 00:55:43.040
ago Where all of the heads of the tech firms And the AI firms are standing there Dressed like,

00:55:43.040 --> 00:55:45.320
you know What?

00:55:46.540 --> 00:55:55.340
Delightfully adorned penguins Standing next to an actual king who was walking behind.

00:55:57.065 --> 00:56:06.425
The president of the United States, the this is the Anglo-American establishment in its full force.

00:56:06.865 --> 00:56:13.145
So there's no that in terms of social media and maybe maybe I could get some

00:56:13.145 --> 00:56:15.025
pushback on this. God, I hope I could.

00:56:15.205 --> 00:56:25.065
But there's no difference between the heads of social media companies in my mind and the state.

00:56:25.065 --> 00:56:31.265
Carrie, do you have like, well, I've honestly, I've been wanting to say something

00:56:31.265 --> 00:56:34.985
that's kind of adjacently really, but I think is quite important to consider.

00:56:35.105 --> 00:56:36.065
You mentioned his inauguration.

00:56:36.285 --> 00:56:38.185
We're talking about, well, should the government be involved?

00:56:38.445 --> 00:56:41.905
And I wanted to bring up an executive order that Trump had shortly after he

00:56:41.905 --> 00:56:46.205
was inaugurated that all of the MAGA crowd and the free speech absolutists were

00:56:46.205 --> 00:56:49.505
very excited about because it was basically saying the government's not going

00:56:49.505 --> 00:56:50.925
to censor social media anymore.

00:56:51.105 --> 00:56:56.085
By my executive order, you know, I'm ordering all these agencies to stay out of it. They can't do it.

00:56:56.185 --> 00:56:59.705
But when I read that order, I found it very interesting because they refer to

00:56:59.705 --> 00:57:01.365
constitutionally protected speech.

00:57:01.745 --> 00:57:05.105
So in theory, this is maybe, forget I said that part just now,

00:57:05.225 --> 00:57:08.185
before I mentioned that, in theory, wow, Donald Trump is getting the government

00:57:08.185 --> 00:57:11.085
out of censoring social media. But that's a huge caveat.

00:57:11.245 --> 00:57:13.505
When you look at the speech they're now saying is unacceptable.

00:57:13.985 --> 00:57:17.105
They would probably argue that anti-Semitic speech, which could just be criticizing

00:57:17.105 --> 00:57:19.885
the government of Israel, is not constitutionally protected.

00:57:20.065 --> 00:57:23.065
So that's a complete, I wouldn't even call it a backdoor. That is a front door

00:57:23.065 --> 00:57:27.205
to continue censoring the Internet under the guise of no longer censoring the

00:57:27.205 --> 00:57:29.485
Internet because they use the term constitutionally protected.

00:57:29.785 --> 00:57:33.385
And who decides? Well, people in government, they decide whether or not it's constitutional.

00:57:33.645 --> 00:57:37.225
So I don't have a specific reply to what you're saying, because I've been censored

00:57:37.225 --> 00:57:39.605
by potentially that public private partnership.

00:57:39.885 --> 00:57:42.365
If Derek were on the call, like he was censored with the anti-media as well.

00:57:42.465 --> 00:57:46.085
And as far as we can tell, it seems like the Atlantic Council was involved.

00:57:46.865 --> 00:57:49.725
But I to this day I don't know where to draw that

00:57:49.725 --> 00:57:52.705
line because well it's still a private company I

00:57:52.705 --> 00:57:55.825
believe that and I think that is especially important

00:57:55.825 --> 00:57:59.305
because we're talking about the extent of this corporate public practice

00:57:59.305 --> 00:58:02.525
like how do you not how are you if okay if if

00:58:02.525 --> 00:58:05.585
Facebook and Google and all these companies are government entities because

00:58:05.585 --> 00:58:08.685
they got funding from the government or they there's a revolving door

00:58:08.685 --> 00:58:11.465
like what company isn't in this day and age and that's a

00:58:11.465 --> 00:58:14.285
broader conversation but it's all of these things are in

00:58:14.285 --> 00:58:17.425
mesh so it's like if everything is is

00:58:17.425 --> 00:58:20.705
fascism corporatism is nothing fascism corporatism

00:58:20.705 --> 00:58:23.425
within the paradigm we're we're living in i

00:58:23.425 --> 00:58:26.365
don't have the answer but those are the things that are crossing my mind well

00:58:26.365 --> 00:58:33.245
it's interesting the um sorry just to jump on the the um constitutionally protected

00:58:33.245 --> 00:58:38.525
speech thing i mean they're taking away the right to due process now arguing

00:58:38.525 --> 00:58:41.065
that people who are citizens don't get the right to due process.

00:58:41.265 --> 00:58:44.285
So people who aren't citizens, I suppose, also don't get the right to free speech.

00:58:44.365 --> 00:58:46.145
They haven't actually said that, but it is implied.

00:58:46.565 --> 00:58:49.505
There was a recent ruling, by the way. They just came out and argued that that

00:58:49.505 --> 00:58:52.185
was unconstitutional. Keep going. I just think that's important to what you're saying.

00:58:52.485 --> 00:58:54.925
The fact that he- I'm done anyway. It was just a quick-

00:58:55.517 --> 00:58:58.257
Appendix that that's important to think about though there's

00:58:58.257 --> 00:59:01.077
two a house ruled recently or it hasn't you know hasn't it's

00:59:01.077 --> 00:59:03.797
not official yet but that ultimately they're trying to stop rubio from

00:59:03.797 --> 00:59:06.917
being able to remove citizens or censor them

00:59:06.917 --> 00:59:10.917
based on speech as well as they in regard to trump using that around protesters

00:59:10.917 --> 00:59:14.717
like khalil and ozturk and so on so there is some pushback but you know the

00:59:14.717 --> 00:59:18.417
the thing is i think everyone here is principled and i think that's why this

00:59:18.417 --> 00:59:23.997
is difficult because they're creating a line or an absence of one where we want

00:59:23.997 --> 00:59:25.357
to make sure we're doing, you know,

00:59:25.537 --> 00:59:28.417
within our principles and it's not definable. So it makes that very difficult.

00:59:28.537 --> 00:59:32.817
So this is my, this is why I argue that the only real answer is to air back

00:59:32.817 --> 00:59:35.137
as far, you know, air to the principle as far as you can.

00:59:35.257 --> 00:59:39.817
And so let me make this case about, uh, this is the clip overlapping Bondi saying

00:59:39.817 --> 00:59:41.017
hate speech and Charlie Kirk.

00:59:41.117 --> 00:59:44.057
And I think the point to talk about here is that the issue right now is that

00:59:44.057 --> 00:59:47.937
you have a lot of people who are out there who either don't understand constitutionally,

00:59:48.017 --> 00:59:50.957
which I think is actually one of the largest constitutional ignorance in this country,

00:59:50.997 --> 00:59:54.157
but P or people that know and don't care who are professing to

00:59:54.157 --> 00:59:56.937
care about free speech but will ignore that the moment it suits their

00:59:56.937 --> 00:59:59.957
interest and so again it's not you know it's about i think it's individual

00:59:59.957 --> 01:00:02.597
actions that make the big difference here but just a quick opening part so we

01:00:02.597 --> 01:00:08.297
can set that speech and then there's hate speech and there is no place especially

01:00:08.297 --> 01:00:13.317
now especially after what happened to charlie in our society my position um

01:00:13.317 --> 01:00:16.917
is that even hate speech should be completely and totally allowed in our country

01:00:16.917 --> 01:00:19.957
the most disgusting speech should absolutely be protected.

01:00:20.723 --> 01:00:23.003
Now, he goes on and makes a bigger case, but just to put that out there,

01:00:23.123 --> 01:00:24.503
you know, so there's thoughts on that.

01:00:24.623 --> 01:00:28.223
It's important because it's hard. We're in a situation where we're trying to

01:00:28.223 --> 01:00:31.823
have a conversation about the core point when 50 percent of the conversation

01:00:31.823 --> 01:00:34.543
out there doesn't we don't even agree on what that looks like or where that

01:00:34.543 --> 01:00:36.243
line should be drawn or what free speech means.

01:00:36.403 --> 01:00:39.743
So, well, let me tell you a place where I think the line was drawn in the wrong

01:00:39.743 --> 01:00:44.003
place. And I don't know what Kirk's position was it was on it before he died.

01:00:44.103 --> 01:00:45.523
In fact, I'd like to dig it up.

01:00:46.243 --> 01:00:49.743
But, you know, again, Trump just signed an executive order saying you can't

01:00:49.743 --> 01:00:52.083
burn an American flag. Excuse me.

01:00:52.783 --> 01:00:56.823
That is insane. Like, first of all, that's been shot down by the Supreme Court

01:00:56.823 --> 01:00:59.823
again and again and rightfully so. And it needs to be again.

01:01:00.583 --> 01:01:01.683
I'll say this again.

01:01:02.503 --> 01:01:07.203
If it is your property and you are not destroying something else from someone

01:01:07.203 --> 01:01:09.283
there, if you are not disruptive in a public arena.

01:01:09.383 --> 01:01:12.363
And if you are, you know, if you if you're disruptive in a public arena,

01:01:12.363 --> 01:01:14.123
if they want to get you for something like that, great.

01:01:14.123 --> 01:01:19.883
There should be no law saying I can't do something with my property I own,

01:01:20.003 --> 01:01:24.483
even if it is a quote unquote symbol of this country. That is the wrong direction.

01:01:24.763 --> 01:01:28.583
And again, I don't know what Kirk's position was on that, but he would have

01:01:28.583 --> 01:01:34.083
had what probably a good month, six weeks before he was assassinated to weigh

01:01:34.083 --> 01:01:39.163
in on that issue. if he was truly against, you know, any types of censorship.

01:01:39.383 --> 01:01:44.363
And by the way, I am a guy that says hate speech 100%. Even if you think it's

01:01:44.363 --> 01:01:46.063
hate speech, we get to do it here.

01:01:46.243 --> 01:01:48.463
They can call people Nazis all they want.

01:01:48.663 --> 01:01:55.403
We're allowed to have real Nazis in this country dancing around in the regalia. Like, that's a thing.

01:01:55.743 --> 01:01:58.943
You're allowed to do that. Let's see what he says this right here.

01:02:00.442 --> 01:02:02.962
Do you want to read that? Yeah, this is an example of him. Like,

01:02:03.082 --> 01:02:05.462
so this is Trump saying all federal funding will stop for any college,

01:02:05.602 --> 01:02:07.822
school or university that allows illegal protests, which, again,

01:02:07.902 --> 01:02:11.222
they decide what they deem illegal. And Trump's made it clear it's not about violence.

01:02:11.602 --> 01:02:14.382
In L.A., he put out the point that if people show up to protest,

01:02:14.482 --> 01:02:16.482
we'll be met with force. Very clear.

01:02:16.942 --> 01:02:20.702
He said Charlie Kirk responded saying President Trump lays down the new rules on campus protests.

01:02:20.922 --> 01:02:24.122
No more federal funding for schools that allow illegal protests to continue.

01:02:24.122 --> 01:02:26.982
Now, this is well played because of the overlap of the school funding,

01:02:27.102 --> 01:02:30.582
but it's been Supreme Court's roundly ruled. It's just like with the FCC point.

01:02:30.902 --> 01:02:34.262
If they say, or SEC, excuse me, if they say, or no, they say if you,

01:02:34.262 --> 01:02:38.542
you know, act on Jimmy Kimmel or else, and they do, that's still a free speech issue.

01:02:38.622 --> 01:02:41.622
But it goes on to say, foreign students sent home, American students expelled,

01:02:41.702 --> 01:02:44.982
and so on, and no masks to hide identities and criminals is exactly spot on,

01:02:45.162 --> 01:02:46.922
except unless it's ICE today, you know, different point.

01:02:47.222 --> 01:02:49.982
But so there's many of those where Charlie Kirk, I would argue, seems

01:02:49.982 --> 01:02:53.042
to contradict the stance he would say in that speech but

01:02:53.042 --> 01:02:56.202
it's always because of the nuance and maybe he was doing it with good intention it's

01:02:56.202 --> 01:02:59.162
hard to say at this point but the real problem there is

01:02:59.162 --> 01:03:02.762
the federal funding that's the actual problem that

01:03:02.762 --> 01:03:05.622
that it isn't even about the government trying to stop speech

01:03:05.622 --> 01:03:08.462
it's about federal funding and hey we'll take this federal funding

01:03:08.462 --> 01:03:11.462
away from you no don't take the federal funding away from colleges

01:03:11.462 --> 01:03:14.502
we should fight for federal funding for colleges say they

01:03:14.502 --> 01:03:17.702
would be anarchists no the point is the

01:03:17.702 --> 01:03:21.342
federal funding is the original evil that's the

01:03:21.342 --> 01:03:24.342
point carrie was getting into is that that line right like that's you blur those

01:03:24.342 --> 01:03:27.982
lines intentionally and then it becomes impossible to be able to make that that

01:03:27.982 --> 01:03:33.722
definition so i mean the principal position is easy and is simple no the principal

01:03:33.722 --> 01:03:37.222
position the solution to this is to get the government out of colleges altogether

01:03:37.222 --> 01:03:41.622
so the federal funding and whether it is not the sort of damocles that they can dangle.

01:03:42.158 --> 01:03:45.518
OK, then that same point of government was coming along and saying there is

01:03:45.518 --> 01:03:48.778
a new law, you will be arrested if you have a protest on campus.

01:03:49.098 --> 01:03:52.458
Oh, OK, that's the free speech. But no, they're saying we'll take federal funding

01:03:52.458 --> 01:03:56.658
away. So what should our position be on that? No, don't take federal funding away.

01:03:56.878 --> 01:04:00.018
Well, no, no. Yeah, that's a good point. But the point is not just we decide

01:04:00.018 --> 01:04:02.558
which way or the other, but simply to highlight that they're using that as a

01:04:02.558 --> 01:04:06.838
coercive tool to manipulate their speech or the speech on campus through their enforcement.

01:04:06.838 --> 01:04:09.918
That's very clear right but so how would you apply that james

01:04:09.918 --> 01:04:12.698
to the not college situation what would

01:04:12.698 --> 01:04:15.458
you feel is the most principled stance with what we're dealing with

01:04:15.458 --> 01:04:18.738
the censorship you know that that's kind of seems to be this yeah okay

01:04:18.738 --> 01:04:22.778
good because to me this is the the actual point of this conversation we all

01:04:22.778 --> 01:04:25.998
know the problem and we all agree on the problem we all see the problem and

01:04:25.998 --> 01:04:29.338
i think everyone in the audience understands the problem what is the solution

01:04:29.338 --> 01:04:32.998
that is the only thing we should be concentrating on what do we do about this

01:04:32.998 --> 01:04:37.878
and if people's answer is we need more federal funding for colleges or something,

01:04:38.138 --> 01:04:41.798
or we come out on that side of the equation, we are getting stuck in the wrong.

01:04:42.438 --> 01:04:46.678
In the stuck on stupid conversation, answering the wrong questions in the wrong way.

01:04:46.838 --> 01:04:51.578
What we need to do is decide, okay, what are our principles and how do we work towards them?

01:04:51.818 --> 01:04:54.918
Now, I think it would be great, yes, if government just completely,

01:04:55.098 --> 01:04:56.558
utterly left all of these corporations.

01:04:56.818 --> 01:05:00.238
They're not going to do that anytime soon, are they? Because exactly as Burm

01:05:00.238 --> 01:05:01.818
has said, how many of these people

01:05:01.818 --> 01:05:05.098
have ever faced any sort of criminal prosecution for what's going on?

01:05:05.298 --> 01:05:09.698
Exactly zero of them. How many can we expect to face such prosecution in the

01:05:09.698 --> 01:05:11.058
near future under the Trump administration?

01:05:11.298 --> 01:05:15.398
Exactly zero of them. So what can we do? What can we do?

01:05:15.558 --> 01:05:18.778
And I'm going to give the unpopular answer no one wants to hear.

01:05:18.938 --> 01:05:21.258
Everyone will say, you're stupid, James. This is dumb.

01:05:21.538 --> 01:05:25.738
But it's the only answer that is actually principled. And it is the answer of

01:05:25.738 --> 01:05:31.038
screw Google and screw Alphabet and screw X, screw all these companies.

01:05:31.038 --> 01:05:36.218
And why don't we start building our own infrastructure? No, you're stupid.

01:05:36.378 --> 01:05:38.678
That'll never happen. It won't work. You have to be on Alphabet.

01:05:38.938 --> 01:05:42.458
Everyone has to be on Alphabet. So now we need some government organization

01:05:42.458 --> 01:05:44.938
to tell Alphabet who can and can't be on.

01:05:45.078 --> 01:05:50.478
No, our power is to not be on their platforms.

01:05:50.698 --> 01:05:54.838
Our power is to develop something else. Speaking of which, how's Odyssey going?

01:05:54.958 --> 01:05:56.718
I thought we had an IMA portal now.

01:05:57.796 --> 01:06:01.956
On that note, it's just the updates in the group chat they're giving us is just

01:06:01.956 --> 01:06:04.196
that they're still working out bugs and so on.

01:06:04.516 --> 01:06:07.716
You know, I keep I update people. I simply say I've been in this position.

01:06:07.896 --> 01:06:10.956
Funny enough, with Super U in the past where that exact problem was trying to

01:06:10.956 --> 01:06:14.076
be addressed of a new platform building the infrastructure where Peter put in

01:06:14.076 --> 01:06:16.996
about a million dollars to build multiple places. Then he mysteriously died.

01:06:17.316 --> 01:06:20.136
That's the actual story, by the way. But, you know, not to say I don't agree

01:06:20.136 --> 01:06:24.256
with you entirely, by the way, James, but there's a lot more obviously of things

01:06:24.256 --> 01:06:27.876
are outside the legal reality that governments and powerful people actively do.

01:06:28.236 --> 01:06:31.156
But so, you know, the interesting thing is the government aspect in what you're

01:06:31.156 --> 01:06:34.156
saying, right, which is that, you know, like in that situation,

01:06:34.376 --> 01:06:37.356
what we're all talking about, the government, I think, is where you have to

01:06:37.356 --> 01:06:38.476
be look for accountability.

01:06:38.736 --> 01:06:41.936
And like we do with everything else, like we need to hold them accountable because

01:06:41.936 --> 01:06:46.976
the company, you know, they are there's clearly fault and there's clearly dishonesty.

01:06:46.976 --> 01:06:50.156
But if you're a corporation and you're competing with other companies that are

01:06:50.156 --> 01:06:52.736
getting government one-ups you're going to probably do the same thing like so

01:06:52.736 --> 01:06:53.676
that you can argue government.

01:06:54.256 --> 01:06:57.116
Companies are not necessarily the issue and all that but the government

01:06:57.116 --> 01:07:00.236
that's doing that so how do we hold the government accountable for

01:07:00.236 --> 01:07:03.376
creating the situations and that's the only action we really have to be honest

01:07:03.376 --> 01:07:06.076
outside of what you're saying james which i do agree with but that's going to

01:07:06.076 --> 01:07:09.496
take a while if if it happens if we go momentum so how do we hold the government

01:07:09.496 --> 01:07:13.576
accountable for knowingly coercing companies to do so i think there is mechanisms

01:07:13.576 --> 01:07:18.316
there what do you guys think I think you've got to win in the court of public opinion first. I agree.

01:07:18.556 --> 01:07:22.476
I think a great example of that is James Corbett and the fact that he just had

01:07:22.476 --> 01:07:26.396
Ron Johnson on there talking about these documentaries that were sitting.

01:07:26.476 --> 01:07:31.116
You've just got to keep kicking and screaming on every platform that's available.

01:07:31.376 --> 01:07:32.176
Let me give you an example.

01:07:32.716 --> 01:07:36.376
I don't know that we're going to win in actual court. Ron Johnson,

01:07:36.376 --> 01:07:40.236
he showed up at the Turning the Tide. Dennis Kucinich was there.

01:07:40.436 --> 01:07:43.416
Kurt Weldon. Dana Rohrabacher, which kind of shocked me.

01:07:43.416 --> 01:07:48.756
You know, Dana Rohrabacher, I specifically remember him on Real Time with Bill

01:07:48.756 --> 01:07:53.316
Maher talking about how the Iraqis were going to literally put flower petals

01:07:53.316 --> 01:07:55.836
at our feet after we went and liberated them.

01:07:55.936 --> 01:08:01.156
And he's speaking about 9-11 truth basically on his last political legs.

01:08:01.496 --> 01:08:06.036
That's winning in the court of public opinion. Me being up at 2 in the morning,

01:08:06.376 --> 01:08:11.116
hitting stand-up comedy full, watching somebody I've never seen perform,

01:08:11.176 --> 01:08:15.336
and they're making jokes about Building 7 and going, buildings don't fall that way.

01:08:15.516 --> 01:08:20.336
That's winning in the court of public opinion. The Tuckins, whether you love

01:08:20.336 --> 01:08:24.696
them or hate them, and I think he got the first 10 minutes of that five-part

01:08:24.696 --> 01:08:28.596
series completely wrong, and even propped up John Antisev,

01:08:28.936 --> 01:08:35.376
the FBI handler that literally handled Ahmad Salam, who built the bomb that

01:08:35.376 --> 01:08:37.556
exploded in 93. Got it wrong.

01:08:38.236 --> 01:08:41.116
He's at least looking at this. I watched the second part.

01:08:41.176 --> 01:08:44.416
I thought it was actually rather good, a lot better than the first part.

01:08:44.476 --> 01:08:47.836
I'm going to be watching it week to week. But when I say winning in the court of public opinion.

01:08:48.721 --> 01:08:53.581
Watch that Tucker Carlson, Sam Altman interview. I'm not accusing Sam Altman

01:08:53.581 --> 01:08:58.341
of anything, but it's the first time in my lifetime that after somebody died

01:08:58.341 --> 01:09:02.621
suspiciously in a huge corporation and business,

01:09:02.881 --> 01:09:08.481
that the CEO of that corporation was asked about his suspicious death several

01:09:08.481 --> 01:09:10.901
times on behalf of the family.

01:09:11.061 --> 01:09:15.761
That means we're moving the needle somewhere. The fact that Altman even sat

01:09:15.761 --> 01:09:19.141
down with him, that's moving the needle somewhere.

01:09:19.321 --> 01:09:25.241
Look, Peter Thiel, another example, him having to go on Rogan in that podcast

01:09:25.241 --> 01:09:29.081
bro push at the very end for the Trump administration.

01:09:29.341 --> 01:09:32.401
Again, I don't love what I don't think Thiel was being an honest broker.

01:09:32.861 --> 01:09:38.981
That's moving the needle. OK, I'm just saying that that's what we just got to continue to do.

01:09:38.981 --> 01:09:44.421
I never thought that the Epstein issue was going to be the one that brought

01:09:44.421 --> 01:09:48.541
at least, you know, what they call the left and the right together.

01:09:48.541 --> 01:09:51.521
I really always believed it would eventually be 9-11.

01:09:51.701 --> 01:09:59.821
And maybe we can get to that level. But we have to exploit that the best we can as honest brokers.

01:10:00.301 --> 01:10:04.861
In other words, we utilize the tools that we have. I don't, James, I'm with you.

01:10:05.721 --> 01:10:10.061
I wish we'd already built better tools, right? I wish Minds.com,

01:10:10.121 --> 01:10:13.741
we talk about social media, took all in the manner it should have.

01:10:13.921 --> 01:10:17.961
I wish Rockfin was able to do that. Charlie, take it away, bro.

01:10:18.941 --> 01:10:20.621
Outernet, John Snison.

01:10:22.221 --> 01:10:27.881
Those of you who know John, I met him in 2019 at Anarcopulco with you, James, actually.

01:10:29.081 --> 01:10:34.361
He is part of a team that has built a product called Outernet.

01:10:34.501 --> 01:10:38.321
O-U-T-E-R-R.net. it.

01:10:39.044 --> 01:10:43.204
And I'm the wrong person to talk about the technical aspects of anything.

01:10:43.384 --> 01:10:48.764
But it's private communication in a way that he could explain more fully.

01:10:48.964 --> 01:10:52.384
And there's an opportunity for us. He just messaged me today.

01:10:52.544 --> 01:10:57.104
There's an opportunity for people who are looking to be investors in that.

01:10:57.324 --> 01:11:01.944
So there's an opportunity to do something solutions-based, maybe even investment-based,

01:11:02.024 --> 01:11:03.584
maybe even change your entire life.

01:11:04.124 --> 01:11:07.364
I don't know. I don't know what the product's going to be.

01:11:07.364 --> 01:11:11.004
But there are people out there that are actually doing and

01:11:11.004 --> 01:11:13.764
it's inspiring and it and it and it makes you want to

01:11:13.764 --> 01:11:16.644
be involved in it and so john's nice

01:11:16.644 --> 01:11:19.584
into somebody that it had he been here he would certainly

01:11:19.584 --> 01:11:23.884
talk about one of the solutions that he's working on and and i think that's

01:11:23.884 --> 01:11:29.084
uh you know he's the anti in q tell you know he's gonna be funded by us not

01:11:29.084 --> 01:11:33.224
by them i think this may be unpopular in this group or maybe possibly even in

01:11:33.224 --> 01:11:37.024
this group is what i meant and i i hope not, but I, I, I think we're winning.

01:11:37.684 --> 01:11:40.164
I've said that a lot. I don't mean winning in every possible sense,

01:11:40.184 --> 01:11:43.344
but I think what we're seeing is what you're saying, Jason, like,

01:11:43.444 --> 01:11:44.764
when have we ever seen that?

01:11:44.924 --> 01:11:48.724
Like, when have we ever seen the independent media, like genuinely setting the

01:11:48.724 --> 01:11:51.924
conversation points? Like there, it's almost like they're responding to everything,

01:11:52.204 --> 01:11:55.524
you know, somewhat mainstream alternative media, but nonetheless,

01:11:55.744 --> 01:11:58.584
the same kind of, that's a reaction to us being in that position.

01:11:58.724 --> 01:12:01.784
So, you know, I think that's like, hypothetically, let's even say,

01:12:01.784 --> 01:12:02.824
maybe we're already there.

01:12:03.084 --> 01:12:06.724
Maybe we already have a majority, maybe 51% of people that are like,

01:12:06.824 --> 01:12:09.124
yes, yes, we see the problem. Okay. What do we do?

01:12:09.424 --> 01:12:15.304
Right. Okay. So what we do is we thunk our dick on the table.

01:12:16.269 --> 01:12:26.229
That's what we do. And I'm sorry to say it so crudely, but sometimes you just got to put it down.

01:12:26.509 --> 01:12:31.909
And you have to go, I actually do run shit here.

01:12:32.149 --> 01:12:38.649
And everybody on this panel right now runs shit here.

01:12:38.649 --> 01:12:46.189
James Corbett is considered a prophet by many people because he was out there

01:12:46.189 --> 01:12:51.729
way in the early era of the internet going, this is what's happening.

01:12:51.909 --> 01:12:54.189
This is what's coming. This is what you can expect.

01:12:54.409 --> 01:13:00.209
And my brother, you have been proven right time and time and time again.

01:13:00.209 --> 01:13:03.789
In fact, when people are like, are you black pilled?

01:13:03.989 --> 01:13:10.449
Are you white pilled? No, I tell them I'm Corbett pilled because I've, you know,

01:13:10.849 --> 01:13:20.209
I've had this resource for a very long time that has told me unapologetically in full truth,

01:13:20.429 --> 01:13:28.069
what things are without qualifiers and what things may be without qualifiers.

01:13:28.069 --> 01:13:35.269
And that's honestly the most respectable position I could ever imagine in my entire life.

01:13:35.449 --> 01:13:44.549
And so we have a huge database of people who have been legitimately.

01:13:45.109 --> 01:13:50.049
I guess to put it in a baseball analogy, calling balls and strikes as they come.

01:13:51.440 --> 01:13:57.580
And so it's a matter of messaging. So what does the thunk look like?

01:13:58.180 --> 01:14:01.560
Like, so we know that. So that's what I'm trying to get at. So you said thunk

01:14:01.560 --> 01:14:04.540
on the table, right? So what are we talking about? Like, what is the action?

01:14:05.020 --> 01:14:08.840
We already know this. Derek Rose, you know, who was here earlier,

01:14:09.020 --> 01:14:10.340
talks about this all the time.

01:14:12.720 --> 01:14:16.240
It's understanding that technology is inherently a part of our life.

01:14:16.580 --> 01:14:20.360
And it's very difficult to decouple from that. But you can do many,

01:14:20.500 --> 01:14:25.600
many things in and around that, maybe even in spite of that.

01:14:26.140 --> 01:14:30.220
First and foremost, you can grow and produce your own food.

01:14:30.380 --> 01:14:35.260
What you can't grow and produce on your own, you can have a handshake relationship

01:14:35.260 --> 01:14:37.240
with the people who do that in your area.

01:14:37.240 --> 01:14:40.960
We have a gentleman who comes through the show very frequently,

01:14:41.460 --> 01:14:47.040
Texas Slim from the Beef Initiative, who is working very hard to make sure that

01:14:47.040 --> 01:14:49.640
people have a handshake relationship with their rancher.

01:14:49.640 --> 01:14:58.620
But it extends beyond that because once you understand what food is and where food comes from,

01:14:58.860 --> 01:15:05.220
you have a kind of a building block opportunity to understand that, well.

01:15:06.060 --> 01:15:13.560
Information in and of itself doesn't happen because the state tells you or CNN

01:15:13.560 --> 01:15:16.720
or Fox or MSNBC tells you.

01:15:16.720 --> 01:15:20.720
There are things that you can do that it

01:15:20.720 --> 01:15:25.240
falls i guess to trust but verify and

01:15:25.240 --> 01:15:31.460
so we like i i'm i'm one of those people who believes that we have we're living

01:15:31.460 --> 01:15:37.320
in an era of unlimited potential and unlimited opportunity in spite of everything

01:15:37.320 --> 01:15:41.280
that's being thrown at us i just want to say that in no way i'm like i just

01:15:41.280 --> 01:15:43.900
want that part be the conversation we get into steve talks about these things

01:15:43.900 --> 01:15:45.140
all the time, just to make that clear.

01:15:45.600 --> 01:15:48.860
And so, but like, let's, let's hone in all outstanding suggestions.

01:15:49.300 --> 01:15:53.220
I think that's like in a broad sense, but how do we hone in on the free speech point?

01:15:53.360 --> 01:15:56.540
Cause I mean, I, I mean, I honestly, I'm not saying I even have like a solution

01:15:56.540 --> 01:15:59.520
to it other than my, what I believe we should be leaning into,

01:15:59.680 --> 01:16:04.260
which is just the principle and every way air on that side, even if there's bad consequences.

01:16:04.460 --> 01:16:07.460
Like I really want that to be something to think about, but so what are our solutions?

01:16:07.660 --> 01:16:10.800
You know, in addition to what we went out. You know, I talked about utilizing

01:16:10.800 --> 01:16:13.840
the tools. I think we also have to lean into the politicians,

01:16:14.080 --> 01:16:15.580
unfortunately, that are consistent.

01:16:15.840 --> 01:16:19.620
And they are very few and far between. But like Massey is the man.

01:16:20.005 --> 01:16:24.765
You know, I watched Thomas Massey and he is principled. He doesn't seem to bend

01:16:24.765 --> 01:16:26.325
the knee. He's anti-war.

01:16:26.705 --> 01:16:30.105
He doesn't sit up there and say, oh, well, we're going to give an exception

01:16:30.105 --> 01:16:33.165
to Israel or this nation or this ideology.

01:16:33.165 --> 01:16:37.585
He's pushing extremely hard on the Epstein files.

01:16:37.585 --> 01:16:40.445
He grilled cash patel and

01:16:40.445 --> 01:16:44.325
made him look like a you know almost tearful

01:16:44.325 --> 01:16:47.505
child when he was going into it i mean he literally

01:16:47.505 --> 01:16:50.585
hammered him gave examples of people uh

01:16:50.585 --> 01:16:55.325
who had been trafficked he said you know the magician aka david blaine he said

01:16:55.325 --> 01:16:59.205
the rock star i think that's probably courtney love i mean he went down the

01:16:59.205 --> 01:17:04.005
list and he made patel go well it's not just this administration it's the two

01:17:04.005 --> 01:17:09.225
administrations prior that have looked into this really where he was just on the podcast circuit,

01:17:09.485 --> 01:17:14.765
telling us we shouldn't believe anything from those administrations and invoking the Epstein files.

01:17:14.985 --> 01:17:19.945
Ron Johnson is another one. You know, I remember during the COVID-1984 era,

01:17:20.105 --> 01:17:24.485
obviously he was much better than most, but me and my brother would have discussions.

01:17:24.705 --> 01:17:28.965
Yeah, still kind of a neocon war hawk, really didn't like his foreign policy.

01:17:29.345 --> 01:17:35.105
Starting to come around on that, right? And we have to keep in these people's ears.

01:17:35.545 --> 01:17:40.365
And then unfortunately, I mean, we may have – and this is what kind of makes

01:17:40.365 --> 01:17:42.705
me sick to my stomach, and I know it might for you, James,

01:17:42.825 --> 01:17:46.685
as a professed anarchist, and you're never going to have this problem as a Japanese

01:17:46.685 --> 01:17:51.305
citizen, but step up to the plate, and maybe I am eventually going to have to

01:17:51.305 --> 01:17:55.945
run for state senate or state congress or something. I really –,

01:17:56.978 --> 01:18:01.298
I'm just in the belly of the beast. And it was actually, you know,

01:18:01.358 --> 01:18:05.818
and this is maybe even a part of that conversation when we talk about free speech,

01:18:06.158 --> 01:18:08.298
martial law, the military, its uses.

01:18:08.498 --> 01:18:11.798
It's the cleanest I've ever seen D.C. in my entire life, guys.

01:18:12.138 --> 01:18:15.618
I'm just I'm I'm hey, I just want to be honest with you.

01:18:15.778 --> 01:18:20.278
Hey, man, tanks on the streets and dudes with AR fucking threatening people

01:18:20.278 --> 01:18:25.638
really does make for a civil society. As long as you're using authoritarian

01:18:25.638 --> 01:18:27.918
tactics. I again, I get it.

01:18:28.158 --> 01:18:33.938
I didn't see one National Guardsman or one tank. I didn't see one. I'll be honest.

01:18:34.638 --> 01:18:37.498
Every other trip that I'd been there in the last five years,

01:18:37.498 --> 01:18:42.498
I had seen some type of military. I drove, by the way. So it wasn't like I was just isolated.

01:18:42.718 --> 01:18:46.258
Like I said, I went out to Alexandria. I was there for like four days.

01:18:47.258 --> 01:18:52.078
The homeless problem was totally gone. i mean but it's not gone though you have

01:18:52.078 --> 01:18:52.818
to if we're talking about.

01:18:54.198 --> 01:18:58.598
It's a middle ground of them occupying the space that criminals would otherwise

01:18:58.598 --> 01:19:02.378
occupy while they're militarily marching the streets now but again i didn't

01:19:02.378 --> 01:19:06.038
see the military there that's my point right but you you know the point though

01:19:06.038 --> 01:19:08.718
you know that they know that they're present and that's why people are going

01:19:08.718 --> 01:19:11.418
i'm not going to go do this because they're fucking I'm going to rest. Oh, excuse me.

01:19:12.658 --> 01:19:20.738
I think it's a.m. I don't. As I was driving down, I had to drive.

01:19:20.738 --> 01:19:23.318
I drive through Chicago on the way through the Midwest.

01:19:23.578 --> 01:19:27.478
So the big hubbub was that the National Guard was coming to Chicago.

01:19:28.018 --> 01:19:31.238
My friend Chris Don T. Harris, he covered it. I haven't talked to him yet.

01:19:31.744 --> 01:19:36.344
I, I have not seen it in action yet. So I am, I am not going to make a judgment,

01:19:36.364 --> 01:19:39.164
but I am going to be honest about the result there.

01:19:39.224 --> 01:19:41.904
You know, and I know that I went away from us trying to be part of it,

01:19:41.904 --> 01:19:45.844
but listen, if we don't want that type of action and we are talking about solutions

01:19:45.844 --> 01:19:48.944
and we are talking, we're going to have to become the government guys.

01:19:49.164 --> 01:19:51.904
No, no, no, no, no. Okay. Hold on though. Hold on. Hold on. I had to push back.

01:19:52.064 --> 01:19:54.224
You can argue. I look, I'll support you. You want to do that?

01:19:54.364 --> 01:19:57.284
Like I supported Derek, I'll support you. I just don't expect me to vote for

01:19:57.284 --> 01:19:58.624
you. Right. I don't think that's going to work.

01:19:59.264 --> 01:20:02.164
I'm just saying. No, no, hold on. Make a point. The point about what you're

01:20:02.164 --> 01:20:05.044
saying in regard to the location. You know, it's not a solution.

01:20:05.324 --> 01:20:08.044
It's not, it's, first of all, it's shockingly unconstitutional.

01:20:08.284 --> 01:20:11.604
So there's not even, if we're arguing the solution in any way is violating our

01:20:11.604 --> 01:20:13.824
rights, then that's the problem. That's the whole crux of the conversation.

01:20:14.024 --> 01:20:16.284
That's not the solution. That's going to lead to more problems.

01:20:16.444 --> 01:20:19.884
But I think the reality is that, like, even looking at Portland right now,

01:20:20.184 --> 01:20:22.904
you realize, I mean, even the claim is it's an unlawful, war-torn,

01:20:22.924 --> 01:20:26.384
and the reality is they've arrested four people, most of which were bumping

01:20:26.384 --> 01:20:27.504
up against people in a protest.

01:20:27.504 --> 01:20:31.024
That's the legitimate reality of the numbers right now. And they're telling you that it's overrun.

01:20:31.144 --> 01:20:34.384
You know, so that's military in the streets, on the, in the water.

01:20:34.664 --> 01:20:38.504
So Washington DC was a military deployment and whether or not they're marching

01:20:38.504 --> 01:20:41.104
through now, the reality is they're well aware.

01:20:41.304 --> 01:20:42.964
Like I all simply argued, like

01:20:42.964 --> 01:20:46.804
I think it's obvious once they officially move on, people will go back.

01:20:46.964 --> 01:20:49.324
Maybe, maybe it does decrease the crime. I'm not going to deny that,

01:20:49.344 --> 01:20:54.024
but it still does not mean that the, the cure was worse than the solution or the problem.

01:20:54.144 --> 01:20:57.824
That's always that idea. But I think that it will probably go back to much of

01:20:57.824 --> 01:21:01.064
what it was before once they realize the enforcement's out of the way.

01:21:01.184 --> 01:21:02.424
But it's wrong either way, in my opinion.

01:21:02.644 --> 01:21:06.544
I mean, it possibly could. Again, I'm just showing the results there.

01:21:06.724 --> 01:21:10.684
You know, one of the other things that I did notice, and this is just going

01:21:10.684 --> 01:21:11.824
to be like kind of far off.

01:21:11.904 --> 01:21:17.544
I've never seen more Muslims, practicing Muslims in D.C. in my life.

01:21:17.644 --> 01:21:20.064
And I know that a lot of people have seen the stuff in Europe, et cetera.

01:21:20.264 --> 01:21:24.424
I only say that because this is the first time in my life. I went to two Walmarts,

01:21:24.624 --> 01:21:26.824
one in the heart of D.C. and one in Alexandria.

01:21:27.244 --> 01:21:30.044
And I kid you not. First of all, not that white.

01:21:30.530 --> 01:21:33.950
Whitest person in the place and it wasn't hispanics

01:21:33.950 --> 01:21:37.370
or mexicans it was literally arabs uh speaking arabic

01:21:37.370 --> 01:21:40.770
i mean the the vast majority of the people that are working there were

01:21:40.770 --> 01:21:43.970
women in uh hijabs so you know

01:21:43.970 --> 01:21:46.790
i don't know where we are going to be as a culture i do

01:21:46.790 --> 01:21:49.790
know that in those type of cultures they

01:21:49.790 --> 01:21:52.890
accept more authoritarianism and i'm i'm not advocating okay

01:21:52.890 --> 01:21:55.730
this is a very dangerous conversation right look we

01:21:55.730 --> 01:21:58.850
are on dangerous conversation i'm not

01:21:58.850 --> 01:22:01.630
saying like you should stop i we should flesh this out what i'm saying is

01:22:01.630 --> 01:22:04.350
very what you just laid out there first of

01:22:04.350 --> 01:22:07.150
all i don't think being a muslim or arab or speaking arabic in any

01:22:07.150 --> 01:22:09.930
way is against the law or unconstitutional and so whether or not

01:22:09.930 --> 01:22:12.610
there's a lot of muslims is a that that's what's being

01:22:12.610 --> 01:22:15.370
used right now to frame somehow that we're being overtaken and all

01:22:15.370 --> 01:22:18.470
which i i understand the reality of weaponized migration

01:22:18.470 --> 01:22:21.370
my point in this regard when i see loomer for example

01:22:21.370 --> 01:22:24.090
who i let's just my personal opinion and this does this is

01:22:24.090 --> 01:22:27.050
we're back to the free speech i believe my opinion that

01:22:27.050 --> 01:22:29.690
she's acting for the interest of a foreign government at the very least not an

01:22:29.690 --> 01:22:32.530
american interest just my opinion so i'm arguing look do

01:22:32.530 --> 01:22:35.310
i see her do this every day do i feel her using her free

01:22:35.310 --> 01:22:39.570
speech in order to manipulate us 100 will i still defend her right to use that

01:22:39.570 --> 01:22:43.410
free speech 100 so when you get into the problem of like we have a you know

01:22:43.410 --> 01:22:46.530
like i don't know the problem last point when you can talk about the fleshing

01:22:46.530 --> 01:22:49.670
out of the muslim conversation and saying we're seeing muslims everywhere and

01:22:49.670 --> 01:22:52.630
saying that's overtaking us i've never been one of those people.

01:22:53.290 --> 01:22:56.070
Last thing last sentence and you can go when they break

01:22:56.070 --> 01:22:59.150
the law right if we have something breaking the law then make

01:22:59.150 --> 01:23:02.210
your case charge them for something or like we said a conspiracy

01:23:02.210 --> 01:23:04.870
to commit a crime right but this argument that i'm not saying

01:23:04.870 --> 01:23:07.550
you're doing this but that's that's what it felt like is that i've never seen

01:23:07.550 --> 01:23:11.370
more muslims it feels like we're trying to argue that them being present is

01:23:11.370 --> 01:23:15.330
in and of itself the problem i i can't agree with that well i'm so let me let

01:23:15.330 --> 01:23:19.190
me let me say that's not the like i'll give you an example there's a huge uh

01:23:19.190 --> 01:23:23.010
muslim contingent in Michigan, which I go to and go through a ton.

01:23:23.742 --> 01:23:29.382
I'd say it's different in D.C. because it is the epicenter of geopolitics.

01:23:29.562 --> 01:23:31.122
And normally when I'm in D.C.

01:23:31.702 --> 01:23:36.722
Or in the surrounding areas, yeah, there is a mix. But there's so many embassies around, right?

01:23:36.942 --> 01:23:42.062
There's not one culture that I see dominant other than American culture in most cases.

01:23:42.262 --> 01:23:46.382
I see French people, German people, and on the streets, still the same thing.

01:23:46.382 --> 01:23:53.482
I'm just saying I have never seen that concentration of Muslims in that political

01:23:53.482 --> 01:23:56.402
arena and area. And I'm not saying I even know what it means.

01:23:56.582 --> 01:24:01.622
I'm not one of those guys that is warning about radical Islam or I think that's

01:24:01.622 --> 01:24:03.362
the next attack. But I will say this.

01:24:03.782 --> 01:24:09.542
It's certainly be a lot easier to blame radical Islam if something happens in

01:24:09.542 --> 01:24:13.102
that area and you have a higher population density there.

01:24:13.102 --> 01:24:16.582
This is a problem reaction solution

01:24:16.582 --> 01:24:20.962
scenario yeah that's what i'm saying describing 100

01:24:20.962 --> 01:24:26.782
it is right but so the point is that as i understand it it's there's protests

01:24:26.782 --> 01:24:31.142
going on just like we can see a street full of jewish zionists marching through

01:24:31.142 --> 01:24:33.962
the street protesting for their interest to washington dc like i think that

01:24:33.962 --> 01:24:37.862
is what this tends to be but it may be not and make a case if There's crimes being committed,

01:24:38.042 --> 01:24:48.282
lay it out Can we make a case For American Culture, or is that Like something that is so Beyond.

01:24:49.426 --> 01:24:54.246
The the register that it doesn't even exist well let's talk american culture

01:24:54.246 --> 01:24:58.686
for a second and freedom of speech and kind of broader issues here in iowa i

01:24:58.686 --> 01:25:02.206
mean i know that everybody's seen it because it's become a national story uh

01:25:02.206 --> 01:25:05.106
you know you had this individual who was a superintendent.

01:25:05.906 --> 01:25:09.186
Who you know had a firearm a handgun

01:25:09.186 --> 01:25:11.946
so it wasn't just like a shotgun or whatever had that

01:25:11.946 --> 01:25:15.266
registered was registered to vote and wasn't

01:25:15.266 --> 01:25:18.326
an american citizen now culturally i

01:25:18.326 --> 01:25:21.166
think i'm not against somebody who comes from

01:25:21.166 --> 01:25:24.366
another country comes here gets a job in the school system

01:25:24.366 --> 01:25:27.826
and rises up in the ranks as long as they become a citizen like i

01:25:27.826 --> 01:25:30.946
would think that if you are bringing in someone from another country

01:25:30.946 --> 01:25:33.986
say it could be a specialized class on that

01:25:33.986 --> 01:25:36.846
region you know we have these different cultural studies maybe a

01:25:36.846 --> 01:25:39.706
different language etc i just don't know how we have a system

01:25:39.706 --> 01:25:42.686
now that we're taking foreigners and they

01:25:42.686 --> 01:25:45.566
get all the rights of a citizen and a job in

01:25:45.566 --> 01:25:48.526
our educational system see culturally that to

01:25:48.526 --> 01:25:55.306
me is an issue had that person gone through the process of becoming a citizen

01:25:55.306 --> 01:25:59.366
and you know and i'm not even saying we should be pledging our allegiance to

01:25:59.366 --> 01:26:02.786
a flag or anything like that but i am a kind of a fan of the constitution it's

01:26:02.786 --> 01:26:06.566
right for someone to vote without being a citizen period so if that's possible

01:26:06.566 --> 01:26:08.006
that's against the law well i I mean,

01:26:08.126 --> 01:26:12.066
they're saying he literally had been voting. He was a Democrat.

01:26:12.566 --> 01:26:15.886
It would be a crime if they did. The problem, again, we'll see what happens.

01:26:16.026 --> 01:26:18.526
But he has resigned now from that position.

01:26:18.786 --> 01:26:23.906
I don't know that the charges have gone away. It seems like he is going to be deported on top of it.

01:26:24.026 --> 01:26:27.126
But I think that, again, when he's talking about Americana, when we are talking

01:26:27.126 --> 01:26:28.166
about free speech, right?

01:26:28.706 --> 01:26:32.066
Well, we're always talking about influence campaigns. At least the government is.

01:26:32.246 --> 01:26:35.546
Oh, Russian influence and the Chinese influence. and

01:26:35.546 --> 01:26:38.986
this is kind of like real influence of

01:26:38.986 --> 01:26:42.506
a different culture that not somebody that acclimated but

01:26:42.506 --> 01:26:45.726
let's make a quick point about this that the reality the constitutional literance

01:26:45.726 --> 01:26:48.846
of literacy of understanding that literally everybody

01:26:48.846 --> 01:26:51.726
in this country has constitutional rights whether or not they're an illegal alien

01:26:51.726 --> 01:26:55.166
whether or not they're a visa card holder green card holder so again it's

01:26:55.166 --> 01:26:57.986
it's it seems like it's important to understand this so the

01:26:57.986 --> 01:27:00.746
really the only issue is that they're there and that

01:27:00.746 --> 01:27:03.406
they're a different culture and that they're speaking a different language because

01:27:03.406 --> 01:27:08.206
they have and they haven't pledged allegiance to our ideal set at its core which

01:27:08.206 --> 01:27:12.586
which i think is free speech like i said right i mean i'm trying to understand

01:27:12.586 --> 01:27:16.346
the the point of the of the criticism here because if we live in a country with

01:27:16.346 --> 01:27:19.366
freedom of religion look and i'll be clear i'm not and we're taking kind of

01:27:19.366 --> 01:27:20.466
a hard turn here but i'm not.

01:27:21.032 --> 01:27:24.692
I'm aware of the very real ways these things can be abused and that there are

01:27:24.692 --> 01:27:27.972
very real issues from Israel, from Saudi Arabia, from China.

01:27:28.132 --> 01:27:31.212
Like the reality of this, the issue, though, is that we live in a country with

01:27:31.212 --> 01:27:34.152
freedom of religion, freedom of speech. At least we tell ourselves that.

01:27:34.392 --> 01:27:37.372
And so when they break the law, this is where this becomes a problem.

01:27:37.472 --> 01:27:39.452
But everything else becomes hyperbole.

01:27:39.732 --> 01:27:46.592
But do you think it should be legal for somebody like that to become not even just a principal?

01:27:46.592 --> 01:27:51.872
Let's say, I mean, the head of an educational organization in this country for

01:27:51.872 --> 01:27:56.232
American citizens, I think bare minimum, if you're going to be the director

01:27:56.232 --> 01:27:59.052
of that, again, you're on a teaching visa. I get it.

01:27:59.292 --> 01:28:02.372
You know, if you're teaching a language, if you're the head of that,

01:28:02.552 --> 01:28:05.972
I want you to be an American citizen. I do. I really do.

01:28:06.172 --> 01:28:09.612
Like, I want you to be part of the process. Doesn't mean you have to vote,

01:28:09.692 --> 01:28:12.912
but you should absolutely have, you know, the right to vote.

01:28:13.212 --> 01:28:16.392
And again, I'm not saying you have to be born here either. The thing that gets

01:28:16.392 --> 01:28:20.912
me is how is this person able to do all those things? If that's terrible, by the way.

01:28:21.332 --> 01:28:24.552
What's that? Because you just said we didn't verify that. But the point is still

01:28:24.552 --> 01:28:26.712
that if he did, that's a fair question, right?

01:28:26.852 --> 01:28:29.672
Yeah, and that's my question when we're talking about children.

01:28:30.412 --> 01:28:35.392
Because again, how are we supposed to embed the ideas of freedom of speech,

01:28:35.392 --> 01:28:40.552
of individual person and property, if the person that's literally in charge

01:28:40.552 --> 01:28:44.312
of educating our children isn't down with that ideal set?

01:28:44.312 --> 01:28:48.792
We don't know what his opinions are, but I think it comes to a legal issue of

01:28:48.792 --> 01:28:50.432
today. Is that against the law?

01:28:51.452 --> 01:28:56.812
I mean, just to speak up for the now 50 percent of the panel that isn't actually American.

01:28:57.772 --> 01:29:00.512
And you've got your imperialist mindsets going on here.

01:29:04.432 --> 01:29:09.332
This is kind of breaking away from the free speech topic. But I would suggest that, unfortunately,

01:29:10.272 --> 01:29:14.132
the American system, you're talking about America and Israel,

01:29:14.212 --> 01:29:19.212
and I'm afraid that, in my view, in the next few years, that is going to collapse

01:29:19.212 --> 01:29:21.872
and be replaced by something else. And this is all part of that.

01:29:22.572 --> 01:29:27.512
Yeah, I can agree with that. I mean, there will be a transition away from the American empire.

01:29:27.632 --> 01:29:30.372
It will be the main power in the world to become something else.

01:29:30.412 --> 01:29:34.492
And this will be sold to most people, including most Americans, as a good thing.

01:29:35.252 --> 01:29:39.412
I get that sense too, to be honest. Do you think that can happen without a major

01:29:39.412 --> 01:29:45.332
casualty event, I would say, or maybe the right kind of political assassination?

01:29:45.332 --> 01:29:50.432
For instance, right now, I look at the Kirk assassination, and my biggest fear

01:29:50.432 --> 01:29:56.112
is some type of quote-unquote retaliation from the other side that indiscriminately

01:29:56.112 --> 01:29:59.832
kills people, right? Well, I mean, potentially, no, no, I would agree.

01:29:59.992 --> 01:30:02.432
There must be, like, if you look at the transition of power,

01:30:02.532 --> 01:30:06.292
for example, historically from Britain to the US, people would say that the

01:30:06.292 --> 01:30:10.552
episode around that was World War II, essentially, but...

01:30:11.140 --> 01:30:14.700
The transition wasn't then flagship or even necessarily deliberate

01:30:14.700 --> 01:30:17.680
so you could sort of argue it's it's different um i

01:30:17.680 --> 01:30:20.340
i don't think no i think the collapse of

01:30:20.340 --> 01:30:23.700
the u.s when it comes will involve an awful lot of casualties

01:30:23.700 --> 01:30:26.660
one way or the other whether that becomes just from a club of infrastructure like

01:30:26.660 --> 01:30:29.580
you saw in the collapse of the soviet union where there were millions of casualties

01:30:29.580 --> 01:30:32.460
that weren't you know taken out by bullets there was just a complete

01:30:32.460 --> 01:30:35.580
collapse of all social infrastructure and i could see that being

01:30:35.580 --> 01:30:38.340
done let's take this back in the direction of free speech though i

01:30:38.340 --> 01:30:41.480
mean i i felt i felt compelled to to respond with this what

01:30:41.480 --> 01:30:44.520
you were saying jason i'm sorry but i i think that that you know all of this

01:30:44.520 --> 01:30:48.640
overlaps with obviously the conversation of constitutional rights right so that's

01:30:48.640 --> 01:30:51.900
a very least the overlap to the conversation but you know the free the free

01:30:51.900 --> 01:30:55.780
speech point which we're largely wrapping up at this point i think is you know

01:30:55.780 --> 01:30:59.600
we we were talking about the the the the principle we talked about the.

01:31:00.640 --> 01:31:04.180
Hypocrisy which we didn't get into many of the examples but i like james said

01:31:04.180 --> 01:31:06.380
i mean i think everyone's very well aware of the problem.

01:31:06.600 --> 01:31:10.820
We got into the point of the partisan kind of hypocrisy around it and some of the solutions.

01:31:11.020 --> 01:31:13.860
So, I mean, we can kind of wrap up if you guys want to just go through your

01:31:13.860 --> 01:31:16.360
thoughts on where we should go and, you know, whatever else you want to add to it.

01:31:16.420 --> 01:31:20.760
Well, I have just a final thought on free speech, which is the assault on free speech.

01:31:21.320 --> 01:31:25.140
The most dangerous thing about it is people accepting the assault on free speech,

01:31:25.160 --> 01:31:29.820
because I think the system as it is, they will never be able to totally police it.

01:31:29.940 --> 01:31:34.300
They will never have the power or even really the desire to totally police it. What's it more about?

01:31:34.580 --> 01:31:37.340
Is inculcating in ordinary people the idea that

01:31:37.340 --> 01:31:40.080
they will take care of themselves they will censor themselves there are some things

01:31:40.080 --> 01:31:43.660
you are not allowed to say and some things you are not allowed to think um that's

01:31:43.660 --> 01:31:46.460
far more important than actual laws which they can't pass and people

01:31:46.460 --> 01:31:49.200
wouldn't ignore anyway because and if they do that they don't

01:31:49.200 --> 01:31:52.160
need to pass the laws i think really what you're backing against

01:31:52.160 --> 01:31:55.200
is self-censorship imposed through

01:31:55.200 --> 01:31:58.360
fear and through the fear of social rejection

01:31:58.360 --> 01:32:01.680
i think that's much more important that's why they target it

01:32:01.680 --> 01:32:04.540
in these ways they do left-wing free speech right-wing free

01:32:04.540 --> 01:32:07.900
speech and they don't they trust on people's tribalism

01:32:07.900 --> 01:32:11.780
to keep that separate maybe can

01:32:11.780 --> 01:32:14.460
you please write an article about that because that's such an

01:32:14.460 --> 01:32:17.300
important point i 100 agree with what you're saying there

01:32:17.300 --> 01:32:20.020
it is like 50 articles about that over the

01:32:20.020 --> 01:32:23.380
years it just comes right one specifically

01:32:23.380 --> 01:32:28.100
said james here's that article about that thing and then i'll no republish it

01:32:28.100 --> 01:32:32.560
at activist post no um can i just echo what you're saying there because 100%

01:32:32.560 --> 01:32:40.780
the point of this is the point of even the media covering with every single,

01:32:40.900 --> 01:32:43.820
oh, look, the British police just knocked on someone's door over a tweet.

01:32:44.421 --> 01:32:48.721
The incessant coverage of this is to embed in the minds of the public two things.

01:32:48.901 --> 01:32:52.121
One, you're going to get the police called on you if you say anything naughty.

01:32:52.581 --> 01:32:55.921
And two, also to embed the idea in people's minds.

01:32:56.021 --> 01:32:59.761
Well, when we take over the government, we can do this to our enemies.

01:33:00.801 --> 01:33:03.761
Thus normalizing it. So it's that double pronged approach.

01:33:04.001 --> 01:33:11.181
And yeah, we need the third alternative way. We need to be 100% constructing our own communities.

01:33:11.861 --> 01:33:16.641
But also, as Jason says, out there ringing the bell, setting,

01:33:16.941 --> 01:33:21.561
putting the word out, because as Ryan says, quite rightly, it is having an effect.

01:33:21.781 --> 01:33:25.241
We are having an effect. And I actually think of it slightly differently.

01:33:25.321 --> 01:33:26.741
I don't think we are winning.

01:33:27.101 --> 01:33:34.261
Like this is some battle that's going back. I think the power has always been ours. The power is ours.

01:33:34.501 --> 01:33:37.601
And when we recognize that and understand that

01:33:37.601 --> 01:33:41.101
and take that back into our own sovereignty and claim

01:33:41.101 --> 01:33:44.041
that and and act within that power that

01:33:44.041 --> 01:33:47.021
we have i think we're unstoppable but the

01:33:47.021 --> 01:33:50.801
entire point of the enemy propaganda is you're weak you're pathetic you're powerless

01:33:50.801 --> 01:33:55.221
you can do nothing all you can do is come and groveling on bended knee to ask

01:33:55.221 --> 01:33:59.881
youtube to monetize your channel or whatever nope our power is our decisions

01:33:59.881 --> 01:34:05.061
what we do and what we say we have to spread that message a thousand times farther

01:34:05.061 --> 01:34:06.141
than the propaganda can go.

01:34:06.461 --> 01:34:09.801
And one small addition to that is, you know, so a hundred percent agree with

01:34:09.801 --> 01:34:10.461
everything you're saying.

01:34:10.621 --> 01:34:14.001
Then what we see is the, not, not just the fierce self-censorship,

01:34:14.161 --> 01:34:16.681
but the other side doing kind of like the same thing on the other extension

01:34:16.681 --> 01:34:19.081
of it saying, well, they started it. Right.

01:34:19.161 --> 01:34:22.201
So yes, I see this as a problem, but they're the ones that did it first and

01:34:22.201 --> 01:34:23.121
they deserve to get it back.

01:34:23.281 --> 01:34:27.341
Or like McGinnis difference is saying we are hypocrites, but they deserve it.

01:34:27.421 --> 01:34:29.501
You know, I guess I kind of just said that, but yeah. And it's kind of that,

01:34:29.501 --> 01:34:32.581
that's the real, like the rationale from any, which way you look at it.

01:34:32.661 --> 01:34:35.761
It's, it's driving you to agree to your own subjugation.

01:34:39.002 --> 01:34:44.842
I guess I'll jump in. I totally agree with James on this idea that we can't play the victim.

01:34:45.702 --> 01:34:50.442
Unfortunately, I think victim mentality has really been pushed,

01:34:50.462 --> 01:34:52.782
especially with the youth.

01:34:52.922 --> 01:34:55.942
I see it within my own family. It makes me very, very sick.

01:34:56.322 --> 01:35:02.862
It also is associated with these identity politics that are there to separate us.

01:35:03.382 --> 01:35:08.602
And I would just say this, you know, if I came across, you know,

01:35:08.782 --> 01:35:11.302
anti Arab or Muslim, I just like to say this.

01:35:11.402 --> 01:35:15.422
I also don't think that we should be deporting students that are on visas here

01:35:15.422 --> 01:35:20.122
that decide to protest against, you know, Israel or what's going or anything.

01:35:20.122 --> 01:35:23.542
Right. I think they're here on a visa in the education system.

01:35:23.782 --> 01:35:27.362
Like you said, they are allotted those same constitutional rights.

01:35:27.462 --> 01:35:30.982
Again, if they're breaking laws, charge them with that.

01:35:31.162 --> 01:35:33.242
We have a criminal justice system.

01:35:33.542 --> 01:35:39.422
But I think that the only way that we continue on with this is challenging that again and again.

01:35:39.422 --> 01:35:44.382
When, you know, somebody that you agree with on 70 or 80 percent of things starts

01:35:44.382 --> 01:35:48.782
chanting, no, I'm so glad that we can't burn the flag in, you know,

01:35:48.902 --> 01:35:50.722
this country. Get those commies.

01:35:50.802 --> 01:35:54.402
You have to explain why that's a dangerous ideal set. Right.

01:35:54.682 --> 01:36:00.322
You have to explain to people why you can't have this blanket rule that you're

01:36:00.322 --> 01:36:07.402
not allowed to criticize this government, this race of people, this religious belief.

01:36:07.402 --> 01:36:13.142
No, you get to criticize anything and everything. You get to be wrong.

01:36:13.462 --> 01:36:19.142
All right. We're allowed to be wrong in this country. You have to bring that back as well.

01:36:19.302 --> 01:36:21.962
So, look, I think it's going to be an eternal battle. You know,

01:36:21.982 --> 01:36:23.422
I've said it before. I'll say it again.

01:36:24.282 --> 01:36:29.122
I barely know what's happened in the last 46 years that I've been on this planet.

01:36:29.422 --> 01:36:37.502
I don't have any, you know, severe religious or ideological set other than good and evil exists.

01:36:37.502 --> 01:36:46.382
And I'm sorry, but the repression of speech, the outright authoritarianism of

01:36:46.382 --> 01:36:48.022
taking that away is pure evil.

01:36:48.242 --> 01:36:54.062
That's it. It's evil. You know, everyone gets to express themselves full stop.

01:36:55.503 --> 01:37:00.063
Maybe I'll just give my concluding thoughts, reiterating what everyone's saying.

01:37:00.283 --> 01:37:04.903
We all run our counter-influence campaign as the government's running their

01:37:04.903 --> 01:37:11.103
manipulation of public perception and opinion. We got to do the opposite.

01:37:12.183 --> 01:37:15.543
And then what you guys said about what James said about them trying to scare

01:37:15.543 --> 01:37:19.343
us into self-censoring through constantly showing all of these people who are

01:37:19.343 --> 01:37:20.843
getting visits by the thought police.

01:37:20.843 --> 01:37:23.703
Um that actually inspires me to

01:37:23.703 --> 01:37:26.443
further say something you know before i

01:37:26.443 --> 01:37:29.103
went to croatia this summer i was you know

01:37:29.103 --> 01:37:33.183
should i retweet richard medhurst should i retweet george galloway or or or

01:37:33.183 --> 01:37:40.083
graham phillips or um clarenberg i actually printed out one of the eu constitution

01:37:40.083 --> 01:37:46.363
articles because i'm an eu citizen and it says an eu citizen is allowed by the

01:37:46.363 --> 01:37:48.223
eu's own articles which they don't even follow,

01:37:48.423 --> 01:37:53.963
to travel with their non-EU family members in case I got stopped.

01:37:54.883 --> 01:37:59.003
Nothing ever happened. But, you know, and so just to reiterate some of the solutions,

01:37:59.063 --> 01:38:03.683
as you guys were saying, don't, you know, use their platforms less and less. Opt out.

01:38:04.563 --> 01:38:07.823
Try to cost them attention, eyeballs, money.

01:38:08.843 --> 01:38:10.603
Public opinion, I think, is important.

01:38:10.743 --> 01:38:14.343
There was a great clip by a Mexican businessman that went viral.

01:38:14.343 --> 01:38:17.103
His name is compa moi after four years of

01:38:17.103 --> 01:38:20.443
becoming very successful he said i gotta shut down um

01:38:20.443 --> 01:38:23.203
they're extorting me the cartels i'm afraid they're

01:38:23.203 --> 01:38:26.343
gonna send a sicario and he said his his desire is

01:38:26.343 --> 01:38:31.403
the problem is not enough mexicans are speaking out if more mexicans spoke out

01:38:31.403 --> 01:38:35.703
it's the same principle that would then create this public opinion that would

01:38:35.703 --> 01:38:39.923
oblige authorities to act and i think that's the same thing and then you know

01:38:39.923 --> 01:38:44.643
legal actions um and it's just it's a war of attrition. We just got to keep.

01:38:45.772 --> 01:38:48.532
Pounding away you know and i'm and when you guys said

01:38:48.532 --> 01:38:51.832
we're winning i have a more uh long-term pessimistic

01:38:51.832 --> 01:38:54.692
view but for me the issue isn't that we're winning we just

01:38:54.692 --> 01:38:58.452
have to keep hammering away keep firing the mortars uh and then we'll decide

01:38:58.452 --> 01:39:06.612
where we're at you know in a few years or decades time ryan you asked us for

01:39:06.612 --> 01:39:13.612
solutions why don't we just you know i would i would say that anybody on the right who you can reach,

01:39:13.872 --> 01:39:15.772
be that in the US, UK,

01:39:16.232 --> 01:39:21.872
immigration, shut these, we got to round these, we got to fingerprint all these

01:39:21.872 --> 01:39:25.252
illegals and scan their eyeballs and all that stuff.

01:39:25.612 --> 01:39:31.312
Just remind them to think a couple steps ahead and to know that that,

01:39:31.472 --> 01:39:34.432
how would you feel if this power was given to Gavin Newsom?

01:39:35.112 --> 01:39:39.092
And they go, well, I mean, how would it be used against you or somebody like

01:39:39.092 --> 01:39:41.592
you or somebody said, you know, what would you want?

01:39:41.712 --> 01:39:44.612
Would you be as enthusiastic if it was, you know, cause it is,

01:39:44.652 --> 01:39:45.912
it's going to be handed down.

01:39:46.112 --> 01:39:49.592
It's going to be passed down from one party to the next.

01:39:49.612 --> 01:39:53.532
And, and, and if you don't trust your enemy with this power.

01:39:54.532 --> 01:39:57.112
Then can you trust your guy with it as well?

01:39:57.272 --> 01:40:01.632
And so maybe for them to, to re-examine that belief system and,

01:40:01.632 --> 01:40:06.872
and acknowledge that it's, you know, it can be not okay when their guy wants to do it too.

01:40:06.872 --> 01:40:12.792
And for them to be very careful about advocating for state power because once

01:40:12.792 --> 01:40:14.692
they are granted this power,

01:40:14.912 --> 01:40:22.412
once you allow them to take it, you never get it back and it gets turned against you at some point.

01:40:22.652 --> 01:40:28.272
So today it's the illegals coming across the border and five years from now,

01:40:28.412 --> 01:40:30.692
it's them scanning your eyeball before you get on an airplane.

01:40:30.952 --> 01:40:35.432
And so reminder to people to think long-term about this stuff.

01:40:38.851 --> 01:40:40.651
Anybody else? I can't, I don't know if you want to say anything.

01:40:40.751 --> 01:40:44.271
I'm not sure if you did already. I forget, but I'll jump in and if you guys all said something.

01:40:45.311 --> 01:40:48.911
So I'll just wrap up in general. So I think, you know, what I will actually

01:40:48.911 --> 01:40:52.211
say to that since it got brought up more than once, and I'm not saying we've won.

01:40:52.631 --> 01:40:56.131
I think we're winning in the sense that we're gaining ground is really what I'm meaning.

01:40:56.251 --> 01:40:58.911
You know, and I think we all kind of sense that not, maybe that's not even the

01:40:58.911 --> 01:41:00.751
majority yet, but that's kind of where I'm leaning.

01:41:00.871 --> 01:41:03.771
And either way, I think we recognize that there's a difference today,

01:41:03.971 --> 01:41:06.571
you know, and that just speaks to what we're all getting at is that what we're

01:41:06.571 --> 01:41:08.151
doing, it is affecting people.

01:41:08.551 --> 01:41:11.891
And I think that's a powerful thing to recognize, you know? And I want to say

01:41:11.891 --> 01:41:14.571
that I think that, you know, there's two kind of overlapping things is right

01:41:14.571 --> 01:41:15.831
now there's a lot of people out there.

01:41:16.071 --> 01:41:18.831
Well, I will say too, that like I've been saying often that I don't think the

01:41:18.831 --> 01:41:21.511
left and the right, like the mainstream alternative media and the mainstream

01:41:21.511 --> 01:41:22.651
media framing each other.

01:41:22.831 --> 01:41:26.371
I don't think that represents most Americans anymore. I think things have shifted

01:41:26.371 --> 01:41:28.791
and now they keep screaming about the left does this, the right does that.

01:41:28.891 --> 01:41:31.671
And there's leanings, but I think that's changing.

01:41:31.811 --> 01:41:35.131
And I think that there's a lot of really just good people who

01:41:35.451 --> 01:41:38.491
believe that they're fighting for the constitution who maybe don't understand

01:41:38.491 --> 01:41:42.411
it enough or who, who are misled or rationalizing why it's okay to stop it now

01:41:42.411 --> 01:41:45.451
for X, Y, and Z, but let's not always, you know, I think it's important.

01:41:45.491 --> 01:41:47.411
And I think we all here do a good job at this, but out there.

01:41:48.239 --> 01:41:52.039
Immediately assume somebody's fighting for the wrong reasons or a partial or

01:41:52.039 --> 01:41:55.199
parlor, you know, give people the benefit of the doubt in regard to these kinds

01:41:55.199 --> 01:41:59.139
of ways and let them prove themselves out, right? Like engage with somebody is my point.

01:41:59.359 --> 01:42:01.699
Say, Hey, have you thought about this? Do you understand this part of it?

01:42:01.839 --> 01:42:06.099
And I'll say that it's important in that, in that case to really understand

01:42:06.099 --> 01:42:10.439
that in this country, we're not given constitutional rights, right?

01:42:10.559 --> 01:42:13.199
And we all talk about this here, right? That you, these are things that are

01:42:13.199 --> 01:42:15.779
inherent, God given both terms are used.

01:42:15.779 --> 01:42:18.039
So whether you're religious or not, right, the idea is that these are things

01:42:18.039 --> 01:42:21.899
that when this was originally outlined, the idea was this is something that

01:42:21.899 --> 01:42:26.079
human beings have inherently, but we can only enforce this within these boundaries.

01:42:26.339 --> 01:42:29.999
So hopefully other people in the world will ultimately take the same kind of

01:42:29.999 --> 01:42:32.539
mindset on. And you could if you read the documentation, it's very clear.

01:42:32.699 --> 01:42:35.359
And so the reality is that these are things that the government could never

01:42:35.359 --> 01:42:37.739
take away, but they can they can fail to respect them.

01:42:37.939 --> 01:42:40.559
Right. And I think that's where we end up. And so I just really think that's

01:42:40.559 --> 01:42:43.899
super important to think about. And I really, you know, all the discussions

01:42:43.899 --> 01:42:47.119
and the solutions, I think this will give people a lot of ground to think on

01:42:47.119 --> 01:42:48.239
and hopefully evolve their opinions.

01:42:48.419 --> 01:42:50.879
But just, you know, understand where that principle, in my opinion,

01:42:51.019 --> 01:42:55.299
speaking for myself, I think that has to be the end all be all error today because

01:42:55.299 --> 01:42:56.259
of the way it's being abused.

01:42:56.419 --> 01:42:59.499
And I'll say lastly that I hope, you know, like what Jason said,

01:42:59.599 --> 01:43:02.259
I hope it wasn't taken like maybe I came out across too hot in that.

01:43:02.479 --> 01:43:06.999
I feel like the ideas are used very manipulatively out there,

01:43:07.159 --> 01:43:08.719
not even to suggest that's what you were doing, Jason.

01:43:08.859 --> 01:43:12.279
And so I just think it's important to have that conversation. I love Jason to death.

01:43:12.519 --> 01:43:15.739
We still love each other after this because the point is it's an amicable. I love you too, Ryan.

01:43:16.539 --> 01:43:19.019
Well, this is important though, right? Because, you know, and we,

01:43:19.119 --> 01:43:22.519
I mean, I've been on your show in the past where we get a little bit of heated conversation.

01:43:22.659 --> 01:43:25.759
The point is that we will always, I'd like to believe, and I think we all agree,

01:43:26.119 --> 01:43:29.079
be amicable after this and be like, okay, I'm glad we had the conversation.

01:43:29.399 --> 01:43:32.039
I think we, you know, reach some different opinions and people can think on

01:43:32.039 --> 01:43:33.899
it for themselves. And that's the whole point of the argument.

01:43:33.919 --> 01:43:35.559
Not me, I'm cutting all of you off.

01:43:35.719 --> 01:43:39.299
I'm never talking to any of you ever again. Goodbye. You're right.

01:43:40.599 --> 01:43:44.359
Just because you said it like that I just got to give just a personal story

01:43:44.359 --> 01:43:49.099
Really quick And this is the end This is the craziest thing to me,

01:43:49.905 --> 01:43:56.605
My mother called me a few days ago, Friday, to let me know she had a heart attack

01:43:56.605 --> 01:43:59.225
on Monday. Now, it was a silent heart attack.

01:43:59.945 --> 01:44:05.625
She went, got it out, left ventricle. My uncle had had a heart attack the week before.

01:44:06.245 --> 01:44:10.845
Now, my only way to get to that part of the family is usually through my cousin.

01:44:12.205 --> 01:44:16.205
And she had disconnected her Facebook. Now, I thought that she disconnected

01:44:16.205 --> 01:44:18.525
her Facebook because maybe she didn't want to deal with everything.

01:44:18.525 --> 01:44:21.505
Her father was sick. etc and my

01:44:21.505 --> 01:44:24.525
mother goes no no no she she did

01:44:24.525 --> 01:44:27.605
that because she did a post on charlie kirk and i

01:44:27.605 --> 01:44:31.085
go so she goes well she's

01:44:31.085 --> 01:44:35.365
married to a black man jason and i go so and

01:44:35.365 --> 01:44:38.785
then she goes well she's got black children jason and

01:44:38.785 --> 01:44:41.425
i go so and then

01:44:41.425 --> 01:44:44.605
my mother says and i'm gonna tell you right now i have no context what

01:44:44.605 --> 01:44:47.885
she wrote okay or what the responses were my mother

01:44:47.885 --> 01:44:52.145
says to me well Charlie Kirk was a racist and

01:44:52.145 --> 01:44:54.845
I literally lost my mind on

01:44:54.845 --> 01:44:57.665
the phone and I just started screaming at my mother

01:44:57.665 --> 01:45:00.585
I'm like mom I don't know where your brain

01:45:00.585 --> 01:45:05.525
is at and where your kid's brain is at or where my family's brain is at but

01:45:05.525 --> 01:45:11.445
I had a lot of disagreements with Kirk I never saw him or heard him say anything

01:45:11.445 --> 01:45:16.285
that was racist and I often you know my brother called me basically right after

01:45:16.285 --> 01:45:18.305
he got shot, before he was announced dead.

01:45:18.465 --> 01:45:22.085
He was worried because Tucker Carlson was actually supposed to be at the event

01:45:22.085 --> 01:45:25.345
and be presenting, and I was going to be introducing him. He wanted me to be okay.

01:45:25.525 --> 01:45:29.505
And I just thought to myself, not only back to that Reagan thing,

01:45:29.665 --> 01:45:34.085
but how many people would have cheered 20 years ago if I got my head blown off

01:45:34.085 --> 01:45:37.085
in public for speaking out against 9-11?

01:45:37.285 --> 01:45:40.245
How many would cheer now? I had people in the chat literally saying,

01:45:40.325 --> 01:45:42.545
here's to you catching a bullet like Charlie.

01:45:43.351 --> 01:45:50.451
And it really disturbs me that that kind of poison has infiltrated my family's

01:45:50.451 --> 01:45:53.691
mindset, that somebody that whether you disagreed with them or not,

01:45:53.831 --> 01:45:57.671
was willing to have the conversation was somehow inherently racist.

01:45:58.031 --> 01:46:00.691
I hope we can get beyond that. Sorry, I had to jump in.

01:46:01.091 --> 01:46:04.171
No, no, no. I think that's important. And especially since the whole idea is

01:46:04.171 --> 01:46:08.451
that I will even add on top of that, that those people on my point would have the right to save that.

01:46:08.691 --> 01:46:12.151
And that may be that may be contentious because there was no crime outside of

01:46:12.151 --> 01:46:15.391
that idea. but that, you know, you may feel threatened and that means that you can sue them.

01:46:15.451 --> 01:46:19.171
And I think this, that gives a little bit of a final point on where we might discuss that.

01:46:19.311 --> 01:46:22.331
And I'll even add to the point that I think it's a subjective point anyway,

01:46:22.511 --> 01:46:24.931
right? What we always talk about, he can say whatever he wants.

01:46:25.031 --> 01:46:26.371
Some people thought what he said was racist.

01:46:26.711 --> 01:46:29.791
Like even the DEI point they point to, you could argue that there's a level

01:46:29.791 --> 01:46:33.491
of racism there, but I argue his point is about the DEI point and hiring not

01:46:33.491 --> 01:46:34.791
the person who has the best for the job.

01:46:34.971 --> 01:46:37.511
You know, so it becomes a very nuanced thing. The whole point is that he can

01:46:37.511 --> 01:46:40.311
say whatever he wants, you know, and the idea is that we have a right to listen or not.

01:46:40.571 --> 01:46:42.311
And that's kind of the crux of the point at the end of the day.

01:46:42.451 --> 01:46:46.651
And I hope we can think about where that line should be and how that being open

01:46:46.651 --> 01:46:49.611
allows the government to take that action that I think we all disagree with.

01:46:49.771 --> 01:46:51.871
Right. So anybody else, any final thoughts?

01:46:53.471 --> 01:46:56.231
All right. We'll leave it there for today. I appreciate everybody's time and

01:46:56.231 --> 01:46:58.331
I really enjoyed the conversation. Plenty more to come.

01:46:58.591 --> 01:47:02.471
And I was always questioning everything. Come to your own conclusions. Stay vigilant.