WEBVTT

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We're going to be discussing the idea of the false binary.

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What an illusion of choice does, it establishes the baseline assumptions that nobody questions.

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This is part of the fifth generation warfare that we've talked about.

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Voting for the lesser of two evils.

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Definitely an emotional, psychological trap that people are in.

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You're cheerleading for an insane ideology because you think you're winning.

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The role we have is media. How do we help everybody understand this is theater

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and you need to get back into the real world?

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If you're opposed to the agenda, you should oppose it regardless of who's selling it to you.

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Welcome to the Independent Media Alliance. We have a great panel set up today to discuss digital ID.

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I was recently discussing this morning or today in general that I think why

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this is so important. And it is, as we've all pointed out, it's the connective

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tissue between kind of where this is going and where we are.

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And so Hakeem had pointed out he had a great presentation that he'd been working

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on around digital ID, kind of started the conversation again for us to kind

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of come together and discuss where it is, where it's going, the issue that it's become.

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So thank you all for being here. Did you want to go around and introduce again,

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or do you want to jump right into it?

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I'm Derek Brose of The Conscious Resistance.

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He's muted. I'm sure they all know us by now. There we go.

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Maybe introduce ourselves. I forget that I'm muted sometimes.

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Hakeem of T-Bot, Take Back Our Tech and Above Phone.

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James Corbett, CorbettReport.com.

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Steve Boykin and A.M. Wake Up, Slow News Day. Yeah, I'm skipping that next time.

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This is so shambolic. Don't worry, everyone.

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What happens to the little name tag? I know, I've got him. That's on me.

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I've got them down here. But so anyway, just let's get right into it in general.

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So Hakeem had a presentation. I'll throw it to you to get started on where that's

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going to go. And we'll let it go where it goes, brother. Go ahead.

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Yeah. So why is this topic so important? Everyone here has done great work on

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the surveillance grid with companies like Palantir, Big Tech,

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being able to pry into everything that we're doing, knowing a lot about our lives.

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But on one hand, there's the surveillance grid. We don't really get to talk

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about a control grid. And that's what digital ID is.

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It's this control grid that's being built.

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And part of the definition of digital ID is that it's meant to be interoperable.

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It's meant for one form of identification to be used in many different formats.

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So it could be used in a government setting. It could be used for age verification.

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It could be used to verify you're old enough to buy that bottle of alcohol.

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And so when all these things come together, and it's an identification that

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can be turned off at one time.

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You really put yourself at risk of being cut out of all the things that all

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the things you could do in a society.

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So I've been studying many different programs around the world and have seen,

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you know, there's there's a lesson to be learned from every part of the world,

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whether it's the EU and their interoperable digital ID,

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or the Russia and China proprietary model where it's really, really centralized.

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So I mean, I think I'd like to start off with With that question.

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What do you guys think a digital ID is actually?

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I'll guess I'll jump in. I just looked at my past half dozen podcast episodes

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that I put out, and all of them are pretty much on digital ID and technocracy.

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And I realized, as all of you guys are saying, this seems to be the most important topic.

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And I think it's like, to use for my past guests, we got Pat Wood,

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technocracy, algorithm ghetto.

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I think it's like the most totalitarian construct we've ever seen in human history.

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So effectively, digital ID means all your physical activity permissions will

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be put on a platform that we don't control.

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And it's going to be a total checkpoint society from, I mean,

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from the tiniest thing of buying a cup of coffee to the biggest thing,

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to getting married, to buying a home.

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And every decision you make is going to be, there's going to be an intermediary

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there that can cut down that decision.

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Unlike the analog world that we've generally enjoyed up until now.

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That's kind of how I see it.

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Yeah i'll jump in real quick i think i would define digital id

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just in a simple way just a and

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a form of identification because hakim you've

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talked about this that there's a difference between electronic id and digital id

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so i would say a form of identification that

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uses interconnected databases obviously the internet and typically involves

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biometrics whether that's fingerprints scanning retina scanning the face print

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potentially voice print in the future as well and how that is then interconnected

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to all the different systems that we were just hearing about described right there.

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That, to me, is what distinguishes digital ID from just being your paper ID

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card or your little plastic ID card or even the fact that you have a social

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security number in the government system or things like that.

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The difference is what you were talking about, Hakeem, the interoperability

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between all these different systems. That, to me, is what then kind of makes it a digital ID.

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I'll jump off the back of that, Derek, because I agree exactly what Derek said. I completely agree.

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But just to overlap a point that I think is relevant, I think it's actually

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really glad you said that as well, the point of the difference,

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because it can be, you know, all of a sudden people just are hating everything

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electronic, you know, or however that works, it becomes kind of an all-encompassing idea.

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But I'll point out that I think the definition might be different,

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which is kind of where we're highlighting it to the average person.

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Where so and i my opinion to what most people

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think they're fighting or worried about is what what

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hevor was pointing out where it goes and just really the the

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your digital online electronic representation

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of who you are that can be shut off altered affected you know like that you

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don't have control over all those points kind of together but i do think that

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to the average person it really just is sort of an online representation as

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opposed to your physical representation of it that's just obviously more manipulated

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but the point is that there's The interoperability of all of it is what builds the control structure.

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So I think it's a really great place to start. So let's keep going. Who's next?

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Jump in. Well, it's going to be marketed as a one-click or one-download passport.

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And it's going to be represented as something that is a measure of both security and convenience,

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which might as well be billed as safe and effective because it's going to have the exact same results.

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And when you I agree with Derek

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100% there your biometrics are

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your digital ID Ian Davis was

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on my show this morning and we were having

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a very similar conversation and without

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the biometrics you're still just a data footprint but the biometrics and the

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hub of what your data ID does as a myriad of functions that allow you access

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to the vast majority of society.

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It's biometrics plus that hub is digital ID.

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I would say that to me, it is that nexus of the digital ID with the digital

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public infrastructure that really makes it into a key component of the control

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grid that Hakeem was talking about.

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Because the digital ID by itself, if it was only used for interactions with

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government services, like that was the only thing that it was for,

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that would be bad enough.

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Because even then, why does, you know, someone in the whatever department need

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to know about my medical history or whatever, which is gradually starting to happen here in Japan.

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They've rolled out something called my number, which is one number for all of

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your government services, including your health visits and your taxes and everything

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else. So the government will know all of that. That's bad enough.

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But then when it is connected into a digital public infrastructure,

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which means that every time you do a financial transaction online,

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for example, if you're bringing in that digital ID,

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suddenly, as has been said, there is a third party intermediary in every transaction,

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every interaction that you are having. And that intermediary is the government.

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And when and if, let's just imagine if some authoritarian got into a position

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of power somewhere, I know we have to use our imagination for that.

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But if they did, and if they decided you were a security threat,

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they could shut off your access to everything digital, which is increasingly

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everything, because everything is going digital.

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So that, to me, is the nightmare part of this scenario. It's not just the digital ID itself.

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It's the fact that that will be the key that will fit all of these various locks

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to every asset, every aspect of your life and financial transactions and everything else.

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It's interesting the way you just said that. It's the system that it's building into.

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You could argue the digital idea itself exists in some way today,

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but it's that connection of those two that make it nefarious.

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I agree that even the idea that you have to go through that with any kind of

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structure shouldn't be something liberty-seeking people want.

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I thought of something that steve brought in that was interesting the clicking

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you know there's the idea of like the no click fish like uh what's it you know

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the uh like what am i talking about the.

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Passwordless yeah like infiltration stuff like so i'm trying to

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think of the word for it but like like not phishing stuff but like scams like

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that israel has this like the no click

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the zero the zero click hacks yeah right where suddenly you

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don't even have to engage with it point that

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makes that insane i just want to include that that's that's a full extension good

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yeah well like you take

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the question what is digital id and i would say there's actually

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potentially two maybe three answers to that because there's

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the practical answer which is is the technological advance

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that would allow surveillance and surveillance to

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a point that isn't really been precedented in all of human history but

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there's also what is digital id it is a psychological

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propaganda campaign because the two

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don't exist together necessarily like there is the selling of it which is more

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about a customizing people with with the idea and not just the idea of of the

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digital id because and this is something that ian has covered the idea the digital id can exist,

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conceptually without a name and the infrastructure is there and they will use

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it whether or not They're telling you they're using it.

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And there is also the, you know what, guys, you should have a digital ID.

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You should have a card, and you should carry it around with you all the time,

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and you show it to anybody that asks to see it.

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And that's an important aspect of it, not so much the thing itself as a customizing

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people to the thing itself.

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That's a really good point. And I think everyone here nailed it.

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It can shift forms, this digital ID, right?

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You don't need an app on your phone. You could access it just through the web browser.

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In fact, that's the main way it's used in South America. They don't have digital ID apps.

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ID Uruguay is the most most of the largest digital ID system where they actually act as a broker.

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But that's all through the web browser. So even in countries where not everyone

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has a phone yet, that's the way to do it.

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So it does shape shift and takes different forms.

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And I think everyone here is is been watching the news.

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And it's been interesting to see the different countries and the approaches they take to it.

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You see countries, well, you see the UK Prime Minister just going to Hail Mary,

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and he telegraphs a move that's not happening for four years, right?

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It's 2029 is the date. You'll need it by 2029.

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And so it's this date really far in the future, which gets a lot of people angry.

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And then you have places like the EU where they have a plan in place.

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It's written into law that it's voluntary. People will never have to use the

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digital ID if they don't want to.

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But we kind of know why that's disingenuous a bit.

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So I think it'd be interesting to talk about, you know, what are the different

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responses that you've seen with governments trying to get people to adopt this program?

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And do you think that's been like beneficial or not beneficial for their objective?

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I'll start with the COVID overlap, since I felt like you touched on that,

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that I think that's important to consider that this, whether they say it's.

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Your choice or not, they coerce you into it societally, circumstantially,

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you know, so that's important to think about.

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And I think to your point, I think obviously, I mean, the way I see it is that

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just like with COVID, the same thing today, it's very overzealous.

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I tend to think that's because there's an agenda, there's a timeline,

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at least they perceive something's making them feel like they need to get it done by a certain time.

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So I would argue that what they've been doing in their effort to try to push

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that has actually caused an amazing amount of pushback to it,

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which I'm very happy to see. That's how I would read it.

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Yeah maybe i just wanted to give some recent examples to

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maybe for people like listening who don't think this is

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a big deal for it to really hit home and and just today i mean in the u.s this

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story i shared i shared the link about the dhs now wanting to collect biometric

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data not only from immigrants we've heard that story but now it says for even u.s citizens that are,

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sponsoring immigrants to the U.S., trying to get them Visa, Green Card.

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I don't have any immediate... My wife is only a Mexican citizen,

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so I had no plans, but I thought maybe someday if we move to the U.S.,

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I'll have to go to the process to petition her to become a citizen.

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This means now that the DHS is going to say, to make your wife legal,

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we need your DNA and biometrics.

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So now I'm put in this position like

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i don't have a choice so you want your wife to live in that you want to live

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in america with your family legally give up your dna if not sorry you know it's

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kind of it's like a great example ryan of of i'm coerced so what am i going

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to do now i have no idea getting through to you through your family.

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I'm glad you shared that link, brother. I just wanted to add to that just while

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we're talking about the U.S.

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For those because I know we have a lot of people listening in the U.S.

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That that is just kind of picking up on the other recent U.S.

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Announcement, which is that now all foreigners who come into the U.S. and leave the U.S.

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Are mandatory biometrics screening before. Or, you know, I know people say it's

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been happening for years. They have been testing it out in different terminals,

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different airports in the U.S., but that was optional. Even if the vast majority

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of people didn't know it was optional, it was optional.

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Now, as of just, I think, last week and then apparently fully implemented by

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December 26, 2025, all foreigners coming into the U.S.

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When they leave will be required to do face scanning and face printing.

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So, you know, that plus the announcement you just shared there,

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which clearly it's going to start, you know, including citizens in these different

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ways, should be a sign to everybody that even if you think these things are

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just happening in the UK or EU, which have made recent announcements,

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that it's obviously coming to the US, which shouldn't be any surprise because I know, Ryan,

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you've played that clip a million times of Trump saying we're going to have

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biometric entry exit system by air, by land, by sea.

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But just to kind of reemphasize the point that it's happening right now.

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This is part of Agenda 2030. We're about to be in 2026. It shouldn't be a surprise

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that these agendas are moving forward.

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Russia has done the same thing.

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Mexico is taking steps to do similar things.

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Yeah, I mean, it's happening absolutely everywhere.

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And it's something that, you know, people still have the opportunity,

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for the most part, to opt out of it.

00:16:33.226 --> 00:16:41.526
It's just you would have to opt into working with your neighbors to provide those same services.

00:16:42.326 --> 00:16:45.846
And people have been so conditioned to hate

00:16:45.846 --> 00:16:49.666
their neighbor or fear their neighbor or distrust their neighbor that you know

00:16:49.666 --> 00:16:56.906
that's a a herculean task her boy so i mean what you just said i have a story

00:16:56.906 --> 00:17:00.746
that happened last night and i told hakeem that today when he was on my podcast

00:17:00.746 --> 00:17:05.026
um and it's crazy because when 2020 happened covid,

00:17:05.793 --> 00:17:10.753
I imagined this exact scenario five years ago. And this is what all of us do.

00:17:10.913 --> 00:17:13.713
Like we're able to see the plans and we can predict the future.

00:17:13.953 --> 00:17:16.613
And I'm like, I know they're going to pull this one day.

00:17:17.193 --> 00:17:20.213
I don't know what I'm going to do. I'm going to refuse it or I'm going to move.

00:17:21.533 --> 00:17:25.813
And yesterday we had our like homeowners meeting in the gated community here in Mexico.

00:17:26.533 --> 00:17:31.033
And they, the board is like, they've made the decision. They're going to push this through.

00:17:31.213 --> 00:17:34.173
It's not, it's not for sure yet, but they want everyone in our community to

00:17:34.173 --> 00:17:39.333
use a residence app, which is effectively sort of like a private,

00:17:39.553 --> 00:17:41.593
you know, it's not linked to any official database.

00:17:41.633 --> 00:17:45.393
It's just among the community. And I realize this is a thing that's used also

00:17:45.393 --> 00:17:47.393
in the US and apartment complexes.

00:17:48.093 --> 00:17:52.913
And effectively, you'd give out, you know, it's a private company in Mexico.

00:17:53.053 --> 00:17:55.453
I don't know who these people are. And they'd have all of your data,

00:17:55.453 --> 00:17:59.873
my home, my family's name, my vehicle registration for the security.

00:18:00.973 --> 00:18:05.713
Visitors would have to, You'd have to give them a QR code. The old-fashioned

00:18:05.713 --> 00:18:06.733
way is actually quicker.

00:18:06.913 --> 00:18:09.313
The security guard calls you and you say, okay, and that's it.

00:18:09.453 --> 00:18:14.313
Now I got to get on the app, log in, send a code to my visitor who has to present the QR code.

00:18:14.453 --> 00:18:20.193
And then the neighbors, the residents are like, and then if they stay too long,

00:18:20.353 --> 00:18:25.933
we can track and we can, you know, this person stayed too long and then we can see what they're up to.

00:18:26.093 --> 00:18:29.333
And then they were giddy. they

00:18:29.333 --> 00:18:32.333
were really trying to outdo one another in creating soviet

00:18:32.333 --> 00:18:35.893
soviet style rules they're like yeah and i mean one neighbor

00:18:35.893 --> 00:18:38.673
the kid was kicking the soccer ball uh against his house

00:18:38.673 --> 00:18:42.233
all the time and the parent the other neighbor doesn't care but yeah let's ban

00:18:42.233 --> 00:18:47.333
soccer balls yeah let's do this and i'm like oh my goodness they're and they're

00:18:47.333 --> 00:18:51.853
talking about installing facial recognition um cameras and and all this stuff

00:18:51.853 --> 00:18:57.133
and i mean this speaks to latin america i've talked to people who who have said that in Latin culture,

00:18:57.293 --> 00:19:01.333
the collectivism is really ingrained.

00:19:01.453 --> 00:19:03.953
And you think of Aldo Huxley. I mean, they're going to love their servitude.

00:19:04.133 --> 00:19:05.913
And I'm standing listening to everyone.

00:19:06.846 --> 00:19:10.766
And it's just unbelievable. They just... And I'm telling my wife,

00:19:10.966 --> 00:19:14.366
like, I told the tech team earlier today, if they...

00:19:15.200 --> 00:19:17.940
If it gets to a point where i can't enter without the app or

00:19:17.940 --> 00:19:20.640
something i'm gonna tell them i'm a crazy croat i'm gonna

00:19:20.640 --> 00:19:23.540
ram right through the the entrance i don't i don't care

00:19:23.540 --> 00:19:28.700
and uh or i might have to eventually move because it's i'd rather take my chances

00:19:28.700 --> 00:19:33.080
with the cartels outside of gated community than live in this what's what's

00:19:33.080 --> 00:19:38.260
the what's the hashtag saying like we came up with crash the gate hashtag crash

00:19:38.260 --> 00:19:41.840
the gate probably the latter though probably not want to,

00:19:42.560 --> 00:19:46.060
go the other direction but but i don't know right said

00:19:46.060 --> 00:19:48.860
um fascism will come from america in the name of anti-fascism and

00:19:48.860 --> 00:19:51.300
he was wrong fashion was going to come from america in the name of the homos

00:19:51.300 --> 00:19:57.820
associate they have nothing better to do than to get into other people's business

00:19:57.820 --> 00:20:03.180
so i wanted to pose a question just real quick to to jorge uh about that but

00:20:03.180 --> 00:20:07.040
also to all of us in a broader sense like so that's a real world example right

00:20:07.040 --> 00:20:08.120
because i think sometimes people,

00:20:08.340 --> 00:20:11.120
they're hearing about digital IDs, but not until they can see.

00:20:11.600 --> 00:20:14.600
And that's not even a full on digital ID, right? But it's just the way the technology

00:20:14.600 --> 00:20:18.340
is interacting with your life, at least not a government issued, you know, digital ID.

00:20:19.640 --> 00:20:24.240
And people don't make that connection and to see like, how am I actually going to interact with this?

00:20:24.320 --> 00:20:27.720
So now you have this, this situation in your home and your gated community.

00:20:27.840 --> 00:20:30.800
And like you said, if it comes down to it, maybe you'll eventually decide to

00:20:30.800 --> 00:20:34.280
move, you're willing to make what some people might consider to be a drastic

00:20:34.280 --> 00:20:37.300
step to make sure you don't comply with these systems, which personally,

00:20:37.300 --> 00:20:39.180
I think is what we're all going to need to do.

00:20:39.640 --> 00:20:42.340
And, you know, since COVID, but especially in the coming years.

00:20:42.500 --> 00:20:45.100
So I'm just curious, first from you, brother, but then everybody else,

00:20:45.220 --> 00:20:48.840
just like, in the ways that you are going to deal with this directly,

00:20:49.020 --> 00:20:51.820
James, you were talking about the Japanese government making some changes and

00:20:51.820 --> 00:20:53.960
for paying taxes and doing all kinds of things.

00:20:54.960 --> 00:21:01.320
What steps, whether abstractly or specifically, are we all willing to take to avoid these systems?

00:21:01.420 --> 00:21:05.460
Because I think what I'm seeing in my feeds out there is that there's a lot

00:21:05.460 --> 00:21:08.320
of online chatter and resistance as there has been for years.

00:21:08.840 --> 00:21:12.000
But at the same time, it seems like people aren't willing to make,

00:21:12.914 --> 00:21:16.714
drastic lifestyle changes, if it means staying free, like some people are still

00:21:16.714 --> 00:21:19.194
holding on to the idea that they're going to be able to keep their,

00:21:19.274 --> 00:21:24.474
their bank or their whatever they you know, their connection to that technocratic

00:21:24.474 --> 00:21:26.734
system, the systems that's quickly becoming technocratic,

00:21:26.914 --> 00:21:29.914
and that they won't have to really make any major life shifts.

00:21:30.014 --> 00:21:32.914
And I think that should have been completely erased with everything we saw during

00:21:32.914 --> 00:21:36.274
COVID people realizing, okay, maybe life isn't going to go back to normal,

00:21:36.414 --> 00:21:38.894
maybe I need to start contending with this new reality.

00:21:39.034 --> 00:21:42.854
So yeah, I'm curious, just thoughts on how far you're willing to go,

00:21:43.294 --> 00:21:46.654
what your red lines in the sand are when it comes to these things.

00:21:48.074 --> 00:21:52.274
I'll just throw out, I mean, we have to embrace becoming uncomfortable, really.

00:21:52.714 --> 00:21:56.054
That's that. And I was going to first, I don't know how I'm going to deal with

00:21:56.054 --> 00:21:58.034
it because I don't know if they're going to succeed in pushing it through or

00:21:58.034 --> 00:22:00.434
not, but I'm just not going to comply at first.

00:22:00.754 --> 00:22:05.314
They said that it'll be more cumbersome for the people who don't onboard into

00:22:05.314 --> 00:22:07.894
this digital system, and I'm fine with that.

00:22:08.094 --> 00:22:12.914
If it costs me more time, I'll deal with that.

00:22:13.074 --> 00:22:17.734
And I have an above phone, so that's one option where you have the Graphene

00:22:17.734 --> 00:22:19.694
OS and you can check the permission.

00:22:19.954 --> 00:22:24.574
So it depends. I have to test out that system to see how it works.

00:22:25.394 --> 00:22:33.114
But eventually, I'm happy to just completely change homes to get away from it.

00:22:33.114 --> 00:22:36.554
If that's what is necessary, yeah.

00:22:39.219 --> 00:22:42.459
Well, I would simply probably, I'm probably going to be similar,

00:22:42.639 --> 00:22:47.619
I would think, but I don't know what length I, I mean, outside of doing something,

00:22:47.919 --> 00:22:50.479
I was going to say, like, I don't think there's a length I wouldn't go,

00:22:50.679 --> 00:22:52.099
you know, like in a reasonable sense.

00:22:52.219 --> 00:22:56.099
Like if this continues to push, I will change my life to adapt around it as best I can.

00:22:56.179 --> 00:23:00.539
The difference is when, like, for example, the internet or anything we're using

00:23:00.539 --> 00:23:03.819
when we do this kind of work, it creates an interesting paradox for us,

00:23:03.939 --> 00:23:07.139
doesn't it? where we kind of have to be involved with certain parts of this

00:23:07.139 --> 00:23:09.559
that I otherwise might not be if I wasn't doing this work.

00:23:09.659 --> 00:23:12.379
But I would just argue that, you know, if something builds in that direction,

00:23:12.559 --> 00:23:15.159
like I would move, I would, you know, do whatever I could to create,

00:23:15.519 --> 00:23:18.619
to continue to try to keep that out of my life.

00:23:18.659 --> 00:23:22.479
But I think the point is today, they're building it into ways where even if

00:23:22.479 --> 00:23:25.959
you resist, like you're talking about and move, the problem will catch up to

00:23:25.959 --> 00:23:30.039
you as long until we deal with the real issue and not just the local part of it.

00:23:30.179 --> 00:23:33.399
You know, I think that's where i would be but i mean pretty much anything outside

00:23:33.399 --> 00:23:36.039
of something you know like murder or you know

00:23:36.039 --> 00:23:38.739
that kind of thing obviously within reason but i think i'd imagine we're

00:23:38.739 --> 00:23:42.119
probably all at that point you know

00:23:42.119 --> 00:23:45.039
what i've just realized i think klaus schwab was

00:23:45.039 --> 00:23:50.059
right we will owe nothing and we will be happy because we will not be on their

00:23:50.059 --> 00:23:55.959
control grid right it'll be great um let me make a little observation that I

00:23:55.959 --> 00:24:03.159
fear is either going to be too obvious to state or so obvious that it needs stating or maybe both.

00:24:04.479 --> 00:24:05.639
The real...

00:24:06.451 --> 00:24:10.371
The real sticking point of this is digital, digital ID,

00:24:10.731 --> 00:24:18.091
because what was the phrase that instantly in the minds of at least English

00:24:18.091 --> 00:24:22.751
speakers around the world instantly signified an authoritarian regime? Papers, please.

00:24:23.151 --> 00:24:27.411
Right. For a better part of a century, papers, please, means you are living

00:24:27.411 --> 00:24:29.511
in an authoritarian autocratic regime.

00:24:29.671 --> 00:24:34.531
And everyone knew that because, you know, I don't have to present my papers. Right.

00:24:35.191 --> 00:24:38.071
But that's because it was physical paper. And I still think,

00:24:38.171 --> 00:24:41.031
I think if they were trying to institute some sort of thing where there's going

00:24:41.031 --> 00:24:44.711
to be some guy on the border and you have to get out some physical paper card,

00:24:44.931 --> 00:24:49.531
I think people would still, there would be some remnant of that going through people's heads.

00:24:49.691 --> 00:24:54.431
But it's not. It's just a QR code. It's an app. It's a website portal, whatever.

00:24:55.511 --> 00:25:00.251
And, you know, again, this is so trivial that maybe it's stupid.

00:25:00.251 --> 00:25:01.631
But I think there's something to it.

00:25:02.511 --> 00:25:08.071
Since the time we all got online and started using software in our childhoods,

00:25:08.191 --> 00:25:11.371
what is the thing we've done more on computers than anything else?

00:25:11.971 --> 00:25:15.951
Agree. Agree to terms of service. Agree, agree, agree. Don't even read them.

00:25:16.071 --> 00:25:18.911
Who cares? Whatever. Agree, agree, agree, agree, just to use the thing.

00:25:19.411 --> 00:25:24.331
This is exactly that. We have been trained our entire lives digitally to just

00:25:24.331 --> 00:25:26.051
agree, agree, agree, agree, whatever.

00:25:26.531 --> 00:25:30.011
Okay, done. And this is the next implementation of that. I'm I'm just going

00:25:30.011 --> 00:25:33.531
to give my papers. Anyway, I'm sorry, Derek, that does not answer your question.

00:25:35.294 --> 00:25:38.354
I guess, I don't know if you want to use the term black-pilled or pessimistic

00:25:38.354 --> 00:25:43.974
or whatever, but I do not see a way this is going to stop on the societal scale. I think there will be.

00:25:44.394 --> 00:25:47.354
I don't either. I don't either. But I'm curious, though, James,

00:25:47.474 --> 00:25:49.274
for you, what about, like, individually?

00:25:49.594 --> 00:25:51.614
I mean, without, you know, what's the line in the sand? I mean,

00:25:51.774 --> 00:25:55.554
I've always said, yeah, I've always said at the point where I'm going to have

00:25:55.554 --> 00:25:59.314
to, like, give my retina scan and fingerprint or whatever to get online,

00:25:59.374 --> 00:26:00.914
I guess I'll just be offline.

00:26:00.914 --> 00:26:06.094
Um so there is that would we all choose to not broadcast if if and when the

00:26:06.094 --> 00:26:08.914
internet ids come you know like what are we going to do are we going to broadcast

00:26:08.914 --> 00:26:11.674
you're going to give them ideas right,

00:26:12.354 --> 00:26:19.394
let's talk about that though that opens up like an interesting philosophical

00:26:19.394 --> 00:26:22.614
question about the nature of ethics it doesn't yeah because like at that point

00:26:22.614 --> 00:26:25.814
are you putting your principles ahead of the good you could do if you give up

00:26:25.814 --> 00:26:30.054
on your principles right listen if they put the internet above my head.

00:26:30.314 --> 00:26:34.374
I'll give them my ring finger and my thumb. But that's it. And they're going

00:26:34.374 --> 00:26:37.054
to have to try and prove I committed a murder like this.

00:26:37.634 --> 00:26:41.014
Well, what Kit was saying I think is really important because this is something

00:26:41.014 --> 00:26:45.674
that I do a lot of thinking about personally, James. I know you've done work on this before as well.

00:26:47.150 --> 00:26:50.330
What this all comes down to is convenience versus our principles,

00:26:50.450 --> 00:26:52.430
right? We all know they're going to sell it via entertainment.

00:26:52.430 --> 00:26:53.910
They're going to sell it via convenience.

00:26:54.190 --> 00:26:56.130
They're going to tell everybody it's quicker, it's faster, it's better.

00:26:56.290 --> 00:26:58.750
You can get into sports ball. You can play with video games,

00:26:58.870 --> 00:27:00.270
facial recognition, all this stuff.

00:27:00.470 --> 00:27:06.510
We see states and countries already testing out Internet IDs in terms of people

00:27:06.510 --> 00:27:08.310
being able to access pornography, for example.

00:27:08.470 --> 00:27:10.910
Like that's how it starts. We've got to protect the kids, so you now have to

00:27:10.910 --> 00:27:14.710
do a face, you know, selfie or something if you want to look at this porn site.

00:27:14.810 --> 00:27:16.410
And that's one way that it starts.

00:27:17.150 --> 00:27:21.030
Where people start having to do that just to get online and in a very real way.

00:27:21.210 --> 00:27:24.170
I mean, I'm curious, like you said, Kit, like, are we shooting ourselves in the foot?

00:27:24.330 --> 00:27:28.030
I tend to stand as strong as principle as possible, but I also can hear the

00:27:28.030 --> 00:27:31.230
argument of like, okay, well, if I take myself out of the game and I'm just

00:27:31.230 --> 00:27:32.930
like, all right, guys, sorry, I got my land.

00:27:33.050 --> 00:27:36.690
I'm going to just stop broadcasting or I'm going to broadcast only on the deep

00:27:36.690 --> 00:27:41.030
web for anybody who can find me or whatever like that of trying to avoid this

00:27:41.030 --> 00:27:43.750
potential digital ID to get on the internet.

00:27:44.210 --> 00:27:47.650
I don't know. I do think at the same time, I think at the same time,

00:27:47.810 --> 00:27:53.190
this, it would send a negative message to our audiences for them all to see

00:27:53.190 --> 00:27:55.450
it for whatever influence we might have for them all to see,

00:27:55.530 --> 00:27:56.630
oh my God, James is complying.

00:27:56.770 --> 00:28:00.050
Ryan's complying. Like they're just doing it because they want to keep broadcasting on YouTube.

00:28:00.290 --> 00:28:02.670
Like, oh man, what was all this 20 years worth of work about?

00:28:02.830 --> 00:28:03.710
Now they're just doing it.

00:28:04.462 --> 00:28:07.802
Well, this is where this becomes such an important point. Go ahead, Hakeem. Go ahead.

00:28:08.002 --> 00:28:11.822
I just want to say that the hypotheticals are really, really challenging because

00:28:11.822 --> 00:28:16.082
we don't know the situations. I think for me, I've tried to think about it practically.

00:28:16.642 --> 00:28:20.282
And, you know, the entire world's economy runs on the Internet.

00:28:20.662 --> 00:28:24.542
So this is something that's a very common question I'm sure you guys have heard

00:28:24.542 --> 00:28:30.022
is when are they going to put Internet access behind a digital ID or some sort of global ID?

00:28:30.542 --> 00:28:34.242
And the answer to that is when they have enough digital ID adoption.

00:28:34.462 --> 00:28:37.722
So when they do do this, the world's economy doesn't crash overnight.

00:28:38.002 --> 00:28:43.622
So like that's in my report, I try to classify different ID programs by 60 percent.

00:28:43.742 --> 00:28:45.142
60 percent of people have it.

00:28:45.442 --> 00:28:48.762
Then it's easy enough. I call it complete because at that time you can just

00:28:48.762 --> 00:28:51.362
coerce the rest of the 40 percent. They can't comply.

00:28:51.562 --> 00:28:55.282
And they're cut off from the rest of the 60 percent of society.

00:28:55.302 --> 00:28:59.822
And you can argue what that number is. But so I do think Internet,

00:29:00.162 --> 00:29:06.622
the Internet is maybe one of the last stages of the digital ID wall or the digital fracturing.

00:29:07.382 --> 00:29:12.762
And and so it only will get there if adoption goes really, really well.

00:29:13.022 --> 00:29:16.382
There's also that other aspect of the Internet is such a useful tool.

00:29:16.702 --> 00:29:19.922
It maybe doesn't make sense for them to cut off some people from the Internet.

00:29:20.102 --> 00:29:23.242
Wouldn't they much rather be, you know, knowing what you're doing or knowing

00:29:23.242 --> 00:29:26.162
what you're doing online? Well, even if we use a different example,

00:29:26.322 --> 00:29:30.322
like let's say biometrics to get on a plane, which is becoming pretty much standard

00:29:30.322 --> 00:29:31.742
many, many places, right?

00:29:31.902 --> 00:29:35.682
Like I have a passport. It's the only ID I have. It expires in 2028.

00:29:36.312 --> 00:29:38.632
I don't know what I'm going to do, but if things continue in this direction,

00:29:38.672 --> 00:29:41.152
I'm pretty much willing to give up traveling by flight.

00:29:41.292 --> 00:29:43.852
A lot of people stopped because of TSA long ago. Others have,

00:29:43.972 --> 00:29:45.372
you know, they already had a line in the sand. They're like,

00:29:45.452 --> 00:29:46.372
I'm not going to put up with that.

00:29:46.632 --> 00:29:49.972
For me, it's kind of been like, OK, I can opt out of facial recognition right now.

00:29:50.112 --> 00:29:52.992
I can opt out of these things. I'll do that. But when that's not possible,

00:29:53.032 --> 00:29:55.712
that's a line in the sand for me that I'm going to say, OK, sorry,

00:29:55.792 --> 00:29:57.012
I guess I'm not going to be able to fly.

00:29:57.312 --> 00:30:00.972
Because I don't want to just say, well, OK, here it is. I've been talking all

00:30:00.972 --> 00:30:02.472
this crap about it all these years.

00:30:02.472 --> 00:30:05.332
But oh well i'll just join like everybody else so i

00:30:05.332 --> 00:30:08.172
feel like we especially as people who are trying

00:30:08.172 --> 00:30:10.872
to influence others should know what our lines in the

00:30:10.872 --> 00:30:14.712
sand are whether it's about the internet flying what have you i'd like to address

00:30:14.712 --> 00:30:16.772
that now i'm not i don't want to put everyone on the spot because i know it's

00:30:16.772 --> 00:30:19.532
a it's a difficult conversation but i want to address it from my perspective

00:30:19.532 --> 00:30:22.112
because this is something i speak about a lot you know i think it's a really

00:30:22.112 --> 00:30:25.712
important question for us to individually go through or talk about here if you'd

00:30:25.712 --> 00:30:28.612
like and i think you know what's hard about it and i love what you guys have

00:30:28.612 --> 00:30:30.712
already said about it right like especially what Kit was saying,

00:30:30.832 --> 00:30:33.292
like if you're, what I've been arguing to start with,

00:30:33.432 --> 00:30:36.912
very, very, very aggressively for a while, since this last administration,

00:30:37.392 --> 00:30:39.312
is that we have to err on the side of our principles.

00:30:39.572 --> 00:30:41.732
Like I'm saying this every day lately, right? It's important,

00:30:41.752 --> 00:30:45.032
if it comes down to an issue where, you know, they're arguing we should be breaking

00:30:45.032 --> 00:30:47.392
something to fix it, no, you gotta, the principles, you know,

00:30:47.492 --> 00:30:49.252
where you have to err on. So in this conversation.

00:30:50.022 --> 00:30:53.102
Like even let's even start with the airport one. Right. So ask Derek,

00:30:53.302 --> 00:30:55.862
what I recently was saying is I'm not really going to be flying anywhere right

00:30:55.862 --> 00:30:59.922
now because I'm like a lot of different reasons, which is almost contradictory

00:30:59.922 --> 00:31:01.142
for the last American vagabond.

00:31:01.222 --> 00:31:04.242
But the point is that I've decided that that's an issue for me. It's problematic.

00:31:04.602 --> 00:31:08.022
And so in this case, when it comes to the online part, if they start requiring

00:31:08.022 --> 00:31:11.482
that or even just going to larger part of the digital ID, at this point,

00:31:11.622 --> 00:31:13.722
I don't see a world in which I would compromise for that.

00:31:13.722 --> 00:31:16.582
But you know like that's that's where i'm standing right now like that's

00:31:16.582 --> 00:31:19.482
that's where i'm at i think that's important but to consider and and

00:31:19.482 --> 00:31:22.182
to agree with where he was pointing out who we don't know

00:31:22.182 --> 00:31:26.302
the circumstances of that moment as it is now there's no way i'm doing that

00:31:26.302 --> 00:31:29.282
i've said that many times with twitter if they start asking me for facial prints

00:31:29.282 --> 00:31:34.442
i'm not doing that that's which is going to be there's a lot of engagement right

00:31:34.442 --> 00:31:37.862
there that we're going to lose but when it comes to like what kit was saying

00:31:37.862 --> 00:31:40.222
so what if there's a part where you are.

00:31:41.083 --> 00:31:43.983
Losing out on reaching people because you do that, you know,

00:31:44.043 --> 00:31:47.523
and that's, that's where the, the issue becomes a problem, right?

00:31:47.603 --> 00:31:51.003
Because you can argue today that like what they're doing, maybe we can break

00:31:51.003 --> 00:31:53.483
the constitution to really bring it back into play, you know?

00:31:53.523 --> 00:31:55.283
And it's just, it's the point is you don't know the unknown,

00:31:55.283 --> 00:31:58.583
the future, but I'm of the mind that I think, and this is my argument that I

00:31:58.583 --> 00:32:02.883
think where we are not in every sense in history, but because of the way the

00:32:02.883 --> 00:32:06.283
world is now, the way it's being used that we have to err on that,

00:32:06.543 --> 00:32:08.603
that we have to put our, you know, but like to Derek's point,

00:32:08.723 --> 00:32:10.423
we would, I was speaking for myself.

00:32:10.423 --> 00:32:13.163
I would do everything i could to continue to find ways to

00:32:13.163 --> 00:32:15.823
put work out and maybe there's the solution is that we would just have

00:32:15.823 --> 00:32:20.263
to find another workaround you know like we have our entire not us individually

00:32:20.263 --> 00:32:23.663
maybe some of us but in as an industry people have found ways to work around

00:32:23.663 --> 00:32:26.463
these things and i think that's the only way it has to go but i'd love to hear

00:32:26.463 --> 00:32:30.423
from what you guys think you know whether you have a line i just yeah no oh

00:32:30.423 --> 00:32:33.663
go ahead man just real quick my line in the sand is a bit

00:32:34.063 --> 00:32:37.103
different so for example i think there's a bit more wiggle room and for a lot

00:32:37.103 --> 00:32:39.883
of these things that we're talking about, I think for many of us,

00:32:40.003 --> 00:32:44.963
we don't really know how we're going to react until we get to that checkpoint.

00:32:45.403 --> 00:32:50.263
We think maybe now we imagine, but it's not like last night when I had this experience.

00:32:51.043 --> 00:32:57.223
And my line in the sand, I could still see me because I've already given in

00:32:57.223 --> 00:33:01.723
a number of places my fingerprints to Mexican authorities or US or EU.

00:33:02.743 --> 00:33:07.183
I feel like that's already blown past. There are some definite things like vaccination.

00:33:07.503 --> 00:33:13.603
I will not be injected no matter what. If that means my father is dying and I can't see him,

00:33:14.266 --> 00:33:19.106
I'm not going to commit suicide to go see my dying. It'd be like two negatives,

00:33:19.306 --> 00:33:20.946
you know, so I'm definitely not going to do that.

00:33:21.246 --> 00:33:26.046
But for me, the real line in the sand is like, you know, I might go along.

00:33:26.046 --> 00:33:30.286
I might do the biometric to log on to the ID, to log on to the Internet.

00:33:30.646 --> 00:33:34.266
But for me, the line in the sand is the thought crime, the digital gulag.

00:33:34.406 --> 00:33:38.366
Like the line in the sand is like, OK, I've used my biometrics.

00:33:38.506 --> 00:33:40.486
I've logged my digital ID to get on the Internet.

00:33:40.786 --> 00:33:43.946
But if you say this, you're going to be blocked.

00:33:44.326 --> 00:33:47.826
You know or you're going to lose so many social credit points that's where

00:33:47.826 --> 00:33:50.546
i'm i'm not going to adhere to that so i

00:33:50.546 --> 00:33:53.766
kind of want to get thrown in the digital gulag you know what i'm saying yeah

00:33:53.766 --> 00:33:57.106
but what's interesting to me though is that that seems like the inevitable when

00:33:57.106 --> 00:33:59.966
you end up in that position because now they have that control so you will event

00:33:59.966 --> 00:34:03.946
you'll just vanish either way that way i would read it but i but i take your

00:34:03.946 --> 00:34:08.346
point anybody else want to comment well i think i think hakeem was right though

00:34:08.346 --> 00:34:11.486
that i don't think they ever would limit access to the internet I happen to

00:34:11.486 --> 00:34:12.906
agree with that. It's too important.

00:34:13.086 --> 00:34:15.766
They want to keep an eye on everybody. So they'll give you a way in if you don't

00:34:15.766 --> 00:34:17.046
like to the internet access alone.

00:34:19.086 --> 00:34:22.506
I think they would pull the trigger if they could. And I think they're happy

00:34:22.506 --> 00:34:26.446
to let the vagabonds be vagabonds who can then be tracked by the fact that they're

00:34:26.446 --> 00:34:28.726
not, they are not on the system.

00:34:30.986 --> 00:34:34.966
I had a really important point that just absolutely escaped me.

00:34:35.226 --> 00:34:37.346
Well, James, maybe I can help bring it up. I was going to just mention,

00:34:37.446 --> 00:34:42.126
James, that you already make certain exceptions, make certain lines in the sand that others hear.

00:34:42.366 --> 00:34:44.066
That was actually what I was going to say. You're not on Twitter.

00:34:44.226 --> 00:34:46.846
You're not on all these places. Well, okay. So, for example.

00:34:47.066 --> 00:34:51.506
Okay. So, yes, again, it is it's so piecemeal and there's so many different parts to it.

00:34:51.846 --> 00:34:56.626
I am a foreign resident in Japan, which means that every time I come into the

00:34:56.626 --> 00:34:59.726
country, I have to give my digital fingerprints. No exception.

00:35:00.226 --> 00:35:04.466
If I ever want to leave or come back to Japan ever again, I have to give my

00:35:04.466 --> 00:35:06.606
fingerprints. And so I have done that many times.

00:35:07.246 --> 00:35:11.826
However, yeah, for example, Telegram. I went to sign up for Telegram because

00:35:11.826 --> 00:35:14.786
everyone was on Telegram a few years ago and they wanted my phone number.

00:35:14.786 --> 00:35:17.486
And I said, screw you. Nope, and I will never sign up with you.

00:35:18.626 --> 00:35:23.086
I was going to do chat GBT as a kind of a joke thing for one of my editorials once.

00:35:23.686 --> 00:35:26.006
And I went to use it, and it's like, what's my phone number?

00:35:26.146 --> 00:35:29.526
Screw you. I'm not even going to use you for a joke. So yeah,

00:35:29.686 --> 00:35:31.206
I definitely have lines in the sand.

00:35:32.055 --> 00:35:35.435
There's so many different pieces of this that I don't, I don't know.

00:35:35.555 --> 00:35:37.615
I don't think anybody is floating on the cloud here.

00:35:37.835 --> 00:35:40.975
Like, Oh, I I'm so above this all, or if they are, they're not listening to

00:35:40.975 --> 00:35:42.895
a conversation online like this one.

00:35:43.715 --> 00:35:48.855
There are like piecemeal lines in the sand. I mean, I'd walked away from rock

00:35:48.855 --> 00:35:55.035
then as consistently like a number one show there because they wanted me to

00:35:55.035 --> 00:35:57.415
paywall all of my content.

00:35:57.595 --> 00:36:00.615
And even though the content was up everywhere else for

00:36:00.615 --> 00:36:03.815
free you know i was like well no because

00:36:03.815 --> 00:36:06.655
that's a that's a lot yeah

00:36:06.655 --> 00:36:10.555
you're number one you can't force me to pay

00:36:10.555 --> 00:36:14.295
for your people to pay for what is otherwise free

00:36:14.295 --> 00:36:17.595
content like that's not that's we're not going to do that i'll

00:36:17.595 --> 00:36:20.675
leave you know um as far

00:36:20.675 --> 00:36:23.875
as the state goes i already hate

00:36:23.875 --> 00:36:27.915
flying i can give that up you know pretty easily

00:36:27.915 --> 00:36:31.215
i've already been to europe they want biometrics to

00:36:31.215 --> 00:36:35.075
enter i'm not in a rush to go back you

00:36:35.075 --> 00:36:40.375
know it's you know i've been uncomfortable i've been homeless i've been poor

00:36:40.375 --> 00:36:45.615
i've you know been in jail like it's been you know it's not hasn't been a comfortable

00:36:45.615 --> 00:36:55.015
life to begin with like not taking part in some dystopic digital hellscape.

00:36:56.118 --> 00:36:59.038
Doesn't seem that difficult or far

00:36:59.038 --> 00:37:02.038
afield from the way that you know i've lived for most

00:37:02.038 --> 00:37:05.158
of my adult life anyway um you

00:37:05.158 --> 00:37:10.218
know but i recognize that not everybody has that and has that background and

00:37:10.218 --> 00:37:16.818
they're you know but i i don't know yeah i guess i my my line in the sand is

00:37:16.818 --> 00:37:22.138
definitely you have to give up biometrics in order to get online okay well then

00:37:22.138 --> 00:37:23.638
i'm not doing that anymore,

00:37:25.358 --> 00:37:32.478
By the way, can I just add, we're talking as if we'll never be heard from again if we're not online.

00:37:32.798 --> 00:37:37.458
This is not just something that I'm doing for fun's sake or something.

00:37:37.578 --> 00:37:41.318
This is literally if I go offline because I can't get online anymore.

00:37:41.885 --> 00:37:44.605
You're going to find me through my books or you're not going to find me.

00:37:44.825 --> 00:37:45.245
That's what I was going to mention.

00:37:45.625 --> 00:37:49.465
We need to have a physical, we need to have an IMA physically monthly journal

00:37:49.465 --> 00:37:52.285
or something. You know, we need to be prepared because we will adapt.

00:37:52.565 --> 00:37:55.745
I know Whitney currently with Unlimited Hangout is trying to start something.

00:37:55.845 --> 00:37:58.625
And I definitely think we should, you know, and I'll piggyback on what Steve

00:37:58.625 --> 00:38:00.405
was saying is kind of an example.

00:38:00.685 --> 00:38:03.205
And since I have a similar but different experience with Rockfin,

00:38:03.205 --> 00:38:06.865
I'll talk about that too, is that taking our last conversation about this with

00:38:06.865 --> 00:38:09.585
Rock, for example, it's kind of it's the same kind of idea.

00:38:09.585 --> 00:38:12.385
Right and i'll give you my experience since then is that so i

00:38:12.385 --> 00:38:15.625
what i said which i basically still standing in the same point but i've

00:38:15.625 --> 00:38:18.425
used it more since then is that my argument was that

00:38:18.425 --> 00:38:23.345
there was a use to it in sort of like using it to expose like the partisan work

00:38:23.345 --> 00:38:26.545
and we could all find our rationales for using whatever but that ultimately

00:38:26.545 --> 00:38:30.145
it wasn't something that we should trust and blindly adhere to and blah you

00:38:30.145 --> 00:38:32.865
know the whole thing right but my point was that there was a value that you

00:38:32.865 --> 00:38:36.185
can see in doing it and the same thing or he made a point about the value we saw on it.

00:38:36.505 --> 00:38:38.945
You know, so it's, it's, it's a rationale you can make about what you think

00:38:38.945 --> 00:38:42.605
is valuable at that point. At least there's no like transactional thing.

00:38:42.785 --> 00:38:45.965
I think we just know that it's being used, right. The information we're helping

00:38:45.965 --> 00:38:49.085
build the system in a way, but you know, the point is that I've continued to

00:38:49.085 --> 00:38:50.365
use it in that way, you know?

00:38:50.425 --> 00:38:54.325
And so it's like, it's, we all have our own situational things where we rationalize

00:38:54.325 --> 00:38:55.585
it on, on Rockfin side of it.

00:38:56.125 --> 00:38:59.685
Ultimately, my logic was that I already have, like Steve said,

00:39:00.005 --> 00:39:03.405
free content all over the place or for the most every other place is free.

00:39:03.645 --> 00:39:07.525
So when they did that, I ultimately just kind of let it be because it's free

00:39:07.525 --> 00:39:08.605
everywhere else, right?

00:39:08.805 --> 00:39:11.465
But so it's like, we all can find our lines where we think, and we should though.

00:39:11.565 --> 00:39:14.305
It's like the line for where we decide is crossed. If that's individual,

00:39:14.545 --> 00:39:17.485
that's not something we should all or ever all going to agree on.

00:39:17.585 --> 00:39:19.845
But it isn't, I think it's important back to,

00:39:20.361 --> 00:39:23.101
I think whose point it was that I think the principles need to be,

00:39:23.181 --> 00:39:25.361
I think it was Derek, that we should know those lines, right?

00:39:25.481 --> 00:39:28.761
We should define them for ourselves and we should do our best to stand by them

00:39:28.761 --> 00:39:32.261
because we're going to get tested with every day this goes forward.

00:39:32.441 --> 00:39:37.221
I'd like to bring it back to real examples so we can look at other countries

00:39:37.221 --> 00:39:41.121
and come up with a name for what we're doing right here, which could be called

00:39:41.121 --> 00:39:43.381
a principle test, like a purity test.

00:39:44.001 --> 00:39:47.301
And so if you want to talk about… I don't like that term, Mark.

00:39:49.021 --> 00:39:54.901
Boo! Yeah. If you're talking about an Internet lockdown, right,

00:39:54.981 --> 00:39:57.761
what they're doing in Australia, they have age verification,

00:39:57.761 --> 00:40:00.141
which is not tied to a digital ID yet.

00:40:00.261 --> 00:40:04.941
But in their committee meetings, they talk about how digital ID would be perfect for it.

00:40:05.041 --> 00:40:08.421
They just simply haven't pulled that legislative trigger yet.

00:40:08.421 --> 00:40:15.321
But so the way that works is if you are logged in to a very large platform,

00:40:16.121 --> 00:40:22.601
YouTube, TikTok, Gmail, you will need to verify your age or any sort of social network.

00:40:22.761 --> 00:40:25.781
So I think that's a really easy one to check off our list, right?

00:40:26.061 --> 00:40:29.961
We're obviously not going to verify ourselves biometrically for that.

00:40:30.161 --> 00:40:32.181
I think that's a very low at the totem pole.

00:40:32.541 --> 00:40:38.221
Travel is probably somewhere higher than that. We're already seeing that in the EU, in the US.

00:40:38.421 --> 00:40:41.681
And I think we can all agree it's not a black or white situation.

00:40:41.721 --> 00:40:45.181
It's more like, all right, I'm not going to travel to these parts of the world anymore.

00:40:45.501 --> 00:40:48.801
I still would. I'm going to try and travel personally. I'm going to try and

00:40:48.801 --> 00:40:52.001
travel as much as I can before it's everywhere.

00:40:52.161 --> 00:40:56.101
And then, yes, you really have to make sure you have a home base.

00:40:56.861 --> 00:41:03.281
But you went to Japan recently, right? I went to Japan and I talked to the gate

00:41:03.281 --> 00:41:08.001
agent and it was really fun because I looked like a mess. So I didn't have...

00:41:08.947 --> 00:41:13.547
I didn't have, there was no computers there, right? There was no biometric scanning.

00:41:13.727 --> 00:41:16.587
They do ask you. And it was really funny because I looked tired.

00:41:16.667 --> 00:41:20.347
And he was like, he was like super, he was super diligent at his job.

00:41:20.467 --> 00:41:24.367
So I just did like a kawaii Japanese thing. I was like, oh, look at me.

00:41:24.547 --> 00:41:25.947
And he laughed really hard.

00:41:26.367 --> 00:41:33.627
But yeah, so they do bully you at the airport, you know, in the US when you try and opt out.

00:41:34.187 --> 00:41:37.007
I can go through some bullying, no problem. but i

00:41:37.007 --> 00:41:39.747
but i think that um i think

00:41:39.747 --> 00:41:42.827
that what we we should probably talk about was is

00:41:42.827 --> 00:41:45.847
the grocery stores i was talking i think i i shouted

00:41:45.847 --> 00:41:48.567
with someone about this in another country and oh

00:41:48.567 --> 00:41:51.507
it was in canada where they already have this where if

00:41:51.507 --> 00:41:54.487
you enter a grocery store they've got the little doors at the front and

00:41:54.487 --> 00:41:57.767
i think that's happening everywhere um and

00:41:57.767 --> 00:42:01.187
that is a very natural place for digital id to

00:42:01.187 --> 00:42:04.307
enter so you scan it to even enter the store so that's

00:42:04.307 --> 00:42:07.247
like a real that's a tough test right do you

00:42:07.247 --> 00:42:10.587
are you going to be prepared enough for that and um

00:42:10.587 --> 00:42:14.687
i don't know i would think i would need to have kids and be in a really tough

00:42:14.687 --> 00:42:19.047
spot to comply with that well i'll jump on that quickly and point out simply

00:42:19.047 --> 00:42:22.047
that i think that's easier than it may sound i get your point for the average

00:42:22.047 --> 00:42:25.727
person but for those i mean there's you know that's almost something we should

00:42:25.727 --> 00:42:28.307
be doing anyway go to your farmer's market go to your locker farms get away

00:42:28.307 --> 00:42:30.047
from the store in general but go ahead derrick.

00:42:31.173 --> 00:42:34.133
Oh, yeah, I was just going to say, I mean, to Hakeem's question there about

00:42:34.133 --> 00:42:38.853
that, maybe not purity test, but principle test there, that,

00:42:38.973 --> 00:42:43.253
yeah, that's something I wouldn't want to comply with using the Australia example,

00:42:43.593 --> 00:42:45.213
whether it's Facebook or anything else.

00:42:45.333 --> 00:42:49.273
But you're right, if it was use Facebook or give biometrics by Facebook,

00:42:49.473 --> 00:42:51.333
you know, it's not a big, not a hard decision to make.

00:42:51.333 --> 00:42:55.953
I do think that the way, as we've all understood, the way that they pushed it

00:42:55.953 --> 00:42:59.053
during COVID and the way they've pushed every different agenda throughout the

00:42:59.053 --> 00:43:03.733
last few decades and maybe throughout history is obviously the kind of subtle

00:43:03.733 --> 00:43:06.193
coercion, the social engineering, the convenience aspect.

00:43:06.933 --> 00:43:12.793
I think that maybe even some here underestimate the amount of people who comply with things.

00:43:12.973 --> 00:43:16.373
I do think that an Internet ID will eventually roll out, maybe nationwide,

00:43:16.773 --> 00:43:20.873
not necessarily a worldwide Internet ID, but they could find ways to start on

00:43:20.873 --> 00:43:23.173
the national level, which they're already doing.

00:43:23.313 --> 00:43:27.093
So, for example, to access certain government websites, they're already starting

00:43:27.093 --> 00:43:30.553
to make it where you have to have some form of QR code on your phone or things

00:43:30.553 --> 00:43:33.993
like that. And they claim, well, there will be exceptions for the small percentage

00:43:33.993 --> 00:43:35.893
of the population that's not on smartphones.

00:43:36.153 --> 00:43:39.073
But so they're already kind of using that subtle coercion to get people,

00:43:39.173 --> 00:43:41.753
whether it's corporations or you want to renew your driver's license.

00:43:41.913 --> 00:43:45.533
OK, well, we need to scan your face or we need to do this, you know,

00:43:45.613 --> 00:43:47.933
this digital this digital app on the smartphone.

00:43:48.453 --> 00:43:53.013
So I think a lot of people will comply. And mostly because not just the convenience

00:43:53.013 --> 00:43:55.353
thing, but because people are not preparing.

00:43:55.353 --> 00:43:59.053
No matter how many hundreds of thousands of hours people have listened to our

00:43:59.053 --> 00:44:03.013
podcasts or documentaries or books, people still aren't taking action.

00:44:03.133 --> 00:44:04.493
At least that's just kind of what I see.

00:44:04.613 --> 00:44:07.013
And that's maybe on the more pessimistic, like James was saying,

00:44:07.033 --> 00:44:11.353
a little black-billed view, that I think a lot of people are watching this happen.

00:44:11.773 --> 00:44:14.193
I mean, I think it was your phrase that you coined originally,

00:44:14.333 --> 00:44:16.253
James, infotainment, conspiratainment.

00:44:16.333 --> 00:44:19.633
That's kind of how I still see people looking at this. Maybe now it's getting

00:44:19.633 --> 00:44:22.893
a little more real because the announcements are coming more rapidly.

00:44:22.893 --> 00:44:26.253
But it still feels like people think they're just watching a TV show and not

00:44:26.253 --> 00:44:29.013
thinking about, OK, how am I actually going to respond to this if it comes to

00:44:29.013 --> 00:44:32.393
the grocery store, if it comes to the Internet, if it comes to the airports?

00:44:32.693 --> 00:44:34.953
And, yeah, you mentioned Hakeem, people with children.

00:44:35.819 --> 00:44:38.519
We're all going to have different decisions to make based on,

00:44:38.619 --> 00:44:42.959
again, our lifestyle and our habits and just our situation.

00:44:43.219 --> 00:44:46.579
And that's OK. I wasn't asking that question earlier about our principles to

00:44:46.579 --> 00:44:48.739
sort of say we all need to act the same way.

00:44:48.899 --> 00:44:52.119
Clearly, we're all already not acting the same way and dealing with this the same.

00:44:52.399 --> 00:44:55.379
But if we don't even have that conversation and start thinking about it,

00:44:55.679 --> 00:44:59.619
then all of a sudden when it happens, maybe you're just going to comply because

00:44:59.619 --> 00:45:02.259
you haven't given it a second thought, because you haven't started visiting

00:45:02.259 --> 00:45:04.739
the local farmers markets and building those relationships.

00:45:04.739 --> 00:45:08.279
That's the other point i just want to make real quick is that i think establishing

00:45:08.279 --> 00:45:11.379
community relationships whether it's like in your situation you're

00:45:11.379 --> 00:45:14.479
with the hoa trying to talk to your neighbors and

00:45:14.479 --> 00:45:17.399
say like hey maybe we need to make an exception for people like me

00:45:17.399 --> 00:45:20.979
or trying to build these relationships is going to be increasingly important

00:45:20.979 --> 00:45:24.439
because i don't think us in our isolated little silos talking about this on

00:45:24.439 --> 00:45:27.579
the internet are going to stop it like we have to be able to come together both

00:45:27.579 --> 00:45:31.699
to try to slow it down or to have solutions go ahead absolutely and let me just

00:45:31.699 --> 00:45:34.619
put a quick plug in for Hakeem's latest T-Bot episode.

00:45:34.619 --> 00:45:37.639
I was just starting to watch that, and I saw you were plugging the community

00:45:37.639 --> 00:45:41.919
gardens websites with the maps and everything, showing people how they can connect

00:45:41.919 --> 00:45:43.959
to their local area, because I'm sure we all hear it.

00:45:44.019 --> 00:45:46.859
I hear it from my audience all the time, but there's nobody in my area.

00:45:47.199 --> 00:45:51.219
Well, there are lots of ways that you can start finding people in your area

00:45:51.219 --> 00:45:55.179
and start or start with yourself, like Derek often points out.

00:45:55.679 --> 00:45:58.639
If you don't have it in your area, start it yourself. Go ahead. Sorry.

00:46:00.119 --> 00:46:04.159
Thanks for mentioning that, James. Yeah, I mean, you know, that was through,

00:46:04.579 --> 00:46:09.319
really through the Freedom Cell Network, where I understood the power of a map for the first time.

00:46:10.179 --> 00:46:14.519
Because, yes, you can find people near you. And the interesting things about

00:46:14.519 --> 00:46:16.099
the government shutdowns right now.

00:46:16.279 --> 00:46:19.679
Yeah, 40 million Americans about to run out of benefits. There's going to be

00:46:19.679 --> 00:46:24.399
state-level benefits for food stamps and things like that. But...

00:46:25.790 --> 00:46:29.490
And to back to Derek's point, people don't prepare because sometimes they need

00:46:29.490 --> 00:46:33.390
the stick. Sometimes you just need a good, proper kick in the ass. And that's OK.

00:46:33.910 --> 00:46:37.870
Right. We're at different levels. So I expect that some people are going to be proactive.

00:46:38.370 --> 00:46:42.170
I mean, even even us. Right. Just just generally speaking about content creators.

00:46:42.230 --> 00:46:44.070
I think a lot of people are talking the talk.

00:46:44.370 --> 00:46:48.530
But if, you know, if push comes to shove, how how ready are they?

00:46:48.770 --> 00:46:51.430
So I think it's OK for people to learn the hard way.

00:46:51.730 --> 00:46:55.950
Just I hope it's not too late for them. And I hope it's not like an overnight thing.

00:46:56.590 --> 00:47:00.070
Going back to that, though. Yeah, there are a lot of resources out there.

00:47:00.210 --> 00:47:05.910
And I think that if if it really happens at a wide scale, like when if digital

00:47:05.910 --> 00:47:11.850
ID starts to be used in every asset of life, I think also at the same time,

00:47:11.950 --> 00:47:13.630
you're going to see societal breakdown.

00:47:13.910 --> 00:47:17.270
And it's not going to be that attractive of a system. going back to the government

00:47:17.270 --> 00:47:20.970
shutdown, TSA is right now working in America without pay.

00:47:21.410 --> 00:47:25.850
Dude, they are so grumpy, bro. It's kind of hilarious. Honestly,

00:47:25.950 --> 00:47:27.990
they're very, very grumpy. I've talked to them a little bit.

00:47:28.330 --> 00:47:31.470
And they're just telling me, yeah, no one's showing up for work.

00:47:31.590 --> 00:47:33.550
Everyone is calling in sick.

00:47:33.710 --> 00:47:36.390
So these systems are actually really, really fragile.

00:47:36.650 --> 00:47:41.850
They need people to perpetuate them. And hopefully, maybe this is what it's going to be.

00:47:41.850 --> 00:47:45.250
You know the rollout digital id there is

00:47:45.250 --> 00:47:48.170
going to be a mass negative response and it falls apart in

00:47:48.170 --> 00:47:51.310
its own that is that is the best case scenario for

00:47:51.310 --> 00:47:54.250
for this thing in my opinion now it's almost like somebody

00:47:54.250 --> 00:47:57.230
wants to crash these systems purposefully in order to rebuild

00:47:57.230 --> 00:48:01.930
them maybe a digital id might even be the best way to distribute um benefits

00:48:01.930 --> 00:48:05.430
i love thoughts like that like they take you know i mean that's they absolutely

00:48:05.430 --> 00:48:10.830
will do that um but there is an element of that of like deliberate sabotage

00:48:10.830 --> 00:48:15.110
to bring things down but i think you can also take a bit of comfort from like if you take.

00:48:15.843 --> 00:48:19.983
Take like true crime programs where you see some guy kills his wife and they

00:48:19.983 --> 00:48:24.003
find out on his computer 10 days before he did it, he was Googling how to kill

00:48:24.003 --> 00:48:24.943
your wife and get away with it.

00:48:25.023 --> 00:48:29.283
And that literally does happen because there is a limitation to the psychopathic mind.

00:48:29.443 --> 00:48:32.123
There is a lack of imagination and a lack of foresight.

00:48:32.603 --> 00:48:36.723
And if you extrapolate it out to systems, these psychopathic systems have that

00:48:36.723 --> 00:48:39.843
same limitation and they can collapse through that.

00:48:40.723 --> 00:48:44.963
Remember the European blackouts? Just whatever, last spring or whatever.

00:48:44.963 --> 00:48:47.803
And there was there was mass blackouts and people

00:48:47.803 --> 00:48:51.083
are like oh my god suddenly we can't buy or sell anything wow maybe

00:48:51.083 --> 00:48:53.943
we need some physical way of doing this instead of all digital

00:48:53.943 --> 00:48:56.763
and it's gonna happen when and if they roll out the digital id

00:48:56.763 --> 00:48:59.643
in a big way there will be like a blackout for a day

00:48:59.643 --> 00:49:02.663
or two and suddenly people will be like oh we can't do anything wow

00:49:02.663 --> 00:49:05.643
i wonder if we should have some other way i had an article

00:49:05.643 --> 00:49:09.263
on my show this week about dumb homes as

00:49:09.263 --> 00:49:12.143
a new thing that people

00:49:12.143 --> 00:49:15.123
are doing now where it's a wave of people who

00:49:15.123 --> 00:49:18.423
are un-teching their their house

00:49:18.423 --> 00:49:22.043
and their lives and that's like it's becoming

00:49:22.043 --> 00:49:25.143
a popular movement they're talking about

00:49:25.143 --> 00:49:28.223
how the gen alpha or their

00:49:28.223 --> 00:49:31.643
kids is probably going to be uh the

00:49:31.643 --> 00:49:35.183
least tech savvy generation in

00:49:35.183 --> 00:49:38.183
a couple because they're all kind of moving in

00:49:38.183 --> 00:49:42.403
reverse away from there's a natural rejection of

00:49:42.403 --> 00:49:48.323
this that's taking place i don't know on a subconscious or spiritual level for

00:49:48.323 --> 00:49:55.923
i mean tens of millions of people and i i think yeah i don't know i see it i

00:49:55.923 --> 00:49:59.063
recognize it i also have a 13 year old.

00:49:59.531 --> 00:50:03.571
Well, to Derek's point, I agree completely, but I think both those things exist at the same time.

00:50:03.731 --> 00:50:07.311
Like I think – my opinion is that everybody can see this for the most part.

00:50:07.471 --> 00:50:10.751
The question is are they actually taking action in their lives to change anything?

00:50:10.971 --> 00:50:14.411
I want to bring this to one more point before we get too far in – towards the

00:50:14.411 --> 00:50:18.111
end is the overlap to this of the digital twin point, right,

00:50:18.171 --> 00:50:19.171
and the corporate element.

00:50:19.231 --> 00:50:23.971
Because as he was pointing out, just the homeowners association is scooping up all this data.

00:50:24.131 --> 00:50:27.211
I don't know what scares me more, a corporation or a government or whether they're

00:50:27.211 --> 00:50:29.391
both the same thing, owning all this information.

00:50:29.531 --> 00:50:32.871
And we don't even truly, maybe, maybe Kakeem more than anybody here,

00:50:32.971 --> 00:50:35.131
but I don't truly even know what that means in the future.

00:50:35.331 --> 00:50:38.691
You know, like, what does it mean when they own every piece of biometric data

00:50:38.691 --> 00:50:40.291
of you and just on a computer?

00:50:40.431 --> 00:50:44.111
What does it mean when they create like a SimCity digital twin world where they're

00:50:44.111 --> 00:50:47.211
testing out what you may do a week tomorrow and Tuesday at 3 p.m.,

00:50:47.211 --> 00:50:48.671
which is exactly what's actually happening.

00:50:48.791 --> 00:50:52.311
Like the Sim kind of, you know, so my point is all of this, not just in the

00:50:52.311 --> 00:50:57.291
accessing life part, but the use of that block to gain those things and for

00:50:57.291 --> 00:50:59.191
what that may mean in the future.

00:50:59.191 --> 00:51:01.951
You know, it's just one more part to, you know, recognize that this is much

00:51:01.951 --> 00:51:06.151
more alarming than just being blocked out from your life, which is far alarming

00:51:06.151 --> 00:51:08.791
enough, you know? So I just want to throw that in there before we finish.

00:51:09.711 --> 00:51:13.291
Didn't one part of your report say that one of the governments or one of the

00:51:13.291 --> 00:51:17.271
digital ID programs actually said that they own the likeness to you?

00:51:17.391 --> 00:51:19.691
Because I thought I remember you saying that. Maybe it was to James.

00:51:19.911 --> 00:51:22.811
And that's what it made me think of is this whole digital twin concept,

00:51:23.031 --> 00:51:24.291
which has become more popular.

00:51:24.291 --> 00:51:29.991
So it's like if they believe they own your literal likeness and they have all

00:51:29.991 --> 00:51:32.071
your biometrics and who knows whatever else,

00:51:32.071 --> 00:51:36.171
what does that mean for them recreating you in the digital space and that whole

00:51:36.171 --> 00:51:38.831
digital twin conversation Ryan's talking about? But that's what first came to

00:51:38.831 --> 00:51:39.871
mind when I heard you say that.

00:51:40.251 --> 00:51:43.671
And they own and possibly with the overlap of your genetic, you know,

00:51:43.811 --> 00:51:47.691
like your patent on your body because of the COVID-19 injection.

00:51:47.891 --> 00:51:52.251
Like just ideas, like the idea that if they alter you genetically like a Monsanto

00:51:52.251 --> 00:51:53.931
seed that they can argue they own something.

00:51:54.598 --> 00:51:57.318
Change you know this this is not that crazy of an idea when you

00:51:57.318 --> 00:52:00.098
look at the way it's gone combine those together and that becomes even more

00:52:00.098 --> 00:52:04.038
alarming kakeem go ahead i know your thought on this yeah so

00:52:04.038 --> 00:52:06.698
so yes once you give away once you

00:52:06.698 --> 00:52:09.718
give them your biometrics it's like they have like ownership

00:52:09.718 --> 00:52:12.538
of of of your likeness because they could take

00:52:12.538 --> 00:52:15.678
that biometric data they could share it right like it

00:52:15.678 --> 00:52:18.838
five eyes is still a thing those data sharing agreements

00:52:18.838 --> 00:52:21.718
still apply whether it's online surveillance or whether it's

00:52:21.718 --> 00:52:24.718
biometric whether it's your biometrics and so

00:52:24.718 --> 00:52:27.718
you could they can do they can still continue to do stuff with

00:52:27.718 --> 00:52:30.838
them and i think that um russia's case

00:52:30.838 --> 00:52:33.978
is uh you know where they are

00:52:33.978 --> 00:52:40.238
able to integrate biometrics into cctv cameras so they can use facial detection

00:52:40.238 --> 00:52:47.058
is is a really uh it's the most scary example of that um also going back full

00:52:47.058 --> 00:52:53.018
circle we talked about how interoperability is one of the most important features of these systems.

00:52:53.238 --> 00:53:02.618
I do think we will reach a time where most countries will converge on a single text specification.

00:53:02.618 --> 00:53:04.598
And I think that'll probably be

00:53:04.598 --> 00:53:10.958
verified credentials from the WWDOT consortium. So that's in the report.

00:53:11.158 --> 00:53:13.938
I really think as a journalist, this is worth just

00:53:13.938 --> 00:53:16.778
checking out the text spec to see what it looks like

00:53:16.778 --> 00:53:19.458
it's not it's not black magic like you guys can

00:53:19.458 --> 00:53:22.398
also play around with this we can make or actually this is

00:53:22.398 --> 00:53:25.318
worth closing on um kim cameron you

00:53:25.318 --> 00:53:28.618
know the who who came up with this idea of digital identity that

00:53:28.618 --> 00:53:33.698
him and the um and the people who are working on this idea they had this idea

00:53:33.698 --> 00:53:39.698
of sovereign self-identity and it was about someone issuing their own identity

00:53:39.698 --> 00:53:44.318
and it kind of made him it seemed like that word and specifically some of the

00:53:44.318 --> 00:53:45.958
things he was saying in his report,

00:53:46.138 --> 00:53:48.538
it kind of made it sound good.

00:53:48.798 --> 00:53:53.298
As in, you're the one who could issue your identity and you had complete control of it.

00:53:53.977 --> 00:53:58.677
Where was I going with this? I was going with this is is is there a alternate

00:53:58.677 --> 00:54:02.597
or competing form of identity we could provide or we should provide?

00:54:02.797 --> 00:54:07.577
Because as we if we're moving into the counter economy, we're letting go of,

00:54:07.597 --> 00:54:10.537
you know, grocery stores, banks and all of that.

00:54:10.717 --> 00:54:13.837
We're going to need a trust and reputation system for ourselves.

00:54:14.057 --> 00:54:17.097
So I think that's I think that's interesting there.

00:54:17.257 --> 00:54:20.477
Like we could we could technically this because this technology is out there,

00:54:20.557 --> 00:54:24.777
verify credentials. you could issue your own IDs. You could build software around it.

00:54:25.037 --> 00:54:28.077
I mean, I've had the thought in my mind, but I honestly don't know.

00:54:28.197 --> 00:54:32.277
What do you guys think? Is it useful or is it not? Let me just say right off

00:54:32.277 --> 00:54:34.257
the bat, Hakeem, you're exactly right.

00:54:34.977 --> 00:54:41.717
Because, and here's the example that we can cite, and this may not be the best one, but it is a one.

00:54:41.857 --> 00:54:47.417
We do not need governments in order to steward over some identification system for us.

00:54:47.677 --> 00:54:51.097
We can do it ourselves. And here's an example um

00:54:51.097 --> 00:54:53.937
how on remember ebay and i

00:54:53.937 --> 00:54:57.477
don't even mean whatever it is today but you know 20 25 years ago when people

00:54:57.477 --> 00:55:02.157
were using it to buy and sell things online you had no idea who's on the other

00:55:02.157 --> 00:55:06.177
end of that transaction or whether they're going to be able to you know fulfill

00:55:06.177 --> 00:55:10.017
that or whether it's a total scam or what have you but lots of people bought

00:55:10.017 --> 00:55:12.557
on ebay and lots of people trusted it because.

00:55:13.377 --> 00:55:16.997
They had the reputation system. People would rate and review the sellers,

00:55:17.257 --> 00:55:20.777
right? And if somebody's got a thousand five-star reviews, they're probably going to deliver.

00:55:20.937 --> 00:55:24.517
And if somebody's got like three one-star reviews, they're probably not going to deliver.

00:55:24.817 --> 00:55:29.937
And that's a completely voluntary, totally, and it's pseudonymous, right?

00:55:30.037 --> 00:55:34.057
It doesn't have to be your particular individual, like here's my name,

00:55:34.177 --> 00:55:36.097
face, profile, DNA, whatever.

00:55:36.437 --> 00:55:39.497
It's just, here's the handle that I'm using. and people can,

00:55:39.537 --> 00:55:41.977
you know, use a trust and reputation system.

00:55:42.117 --> 00:55:47.177
But yeah, we do, when we are interacting with people, we do need some way of

00:55:47.177 --> 00:55:50.597
understanding who that person is in terms of their reputation, if nothing else.

00:55:50.737 --> 00:55:54.917
And that is the thing we lose when we go from the real world of actual people

00:55:54.917 --> 00:55:58.857
that we are interacting with, that we know on a face-to-face basis into the

00:55:58.857 --> 00:56:02.917
big digital billions of people that you have no idea who they are.

00:56:03.117 --> 00:56:07.417
And so, yes, I think there does need to be a way for us if we are going to interact

00:56:07.417 --> 00:56:11.697
with people digitally we need to be able to verify the reputation in some way.

00:56:12.397 --> 00:56:14.457
But it does not have to be the government.

00:56:15.034 --> 00:56:17.974
Well, I was going to say that while we'll just real quick, while I understand

00:56:17.974 --> 00:56:20.834
what James, you're saying there and what Hakeem is saying, I also want to just

00:56:20.834 --> 00:56:28.294
point out, I wrote an article back in 2021 for TLAV about this discussion around sovereign digital ID.

00:56:28.554 --> 00:56:30.714
And one of the people who was promoting is Charles Hoskinson,

00:56:30.794 --> 00:56:32.174
who's one of the co-founders of Ethereum.

00:56:32.414 --> 00:56:35.174
He actually spoke at the World Economic Forum in January 2020.

00:56:35.174 --> 00:56:38.654
And he was talking about this and he's talking about how do you track people?

00:56:38.774 --> 00:56:41.274
How do you trace that? How do you make sure the money is actually going into

00:56:41.274 --> 00:56:45.014
the right hands? And he talks about global citizenship, self-sovereign identity.

00:56:45.274 --> 00:56:48.294
So again, I think there's potential to what's happening there.

00:56:48.434 --> 00:56:52.294
But then I also pointed out that as far back as 2018, IBM partnered with something

00:56:52.294 --> 00:56:55.654
called the Sovereign Foundation, which is also a partner with the World Economic

00:56:55.654 --> 00:56:58.874
Forum, and they are aligned with the United Nations development goals.

00:56:58.874 --> 00:57:02.714
So I guess my concern is that there is also going to be an effort by,

00:57:02.714 --> 00:57:08.094
you know, they, them, those to co-op this language and co-op this idea of our sovereign ID.

00:57:08.214 --> 00:57:11.814
And personally, for me, I'm okay with just, you know, I get in the digital space

00:57:11.814 --> 00:57:15.814
you were describing, James, in terms of reputation and how that could be, you know, valuable.

00:57:16.594 --> 00:57:19.554
But I feel like, I don't know, I guess just like, because, for example,

00:57:19.614 --> 00:57:21.594
I've seen some communities, I'm building an intentional community.

00:57:21.714 --> 00:57:24.194
I've seen some intentional communities say we're going to put our entire community

00:57:24.194 --> 00:57:29.014
on the blockchain. we're going to have our own internal digital ID for whatever use cases.

00:57:29.174 --> 00:57:32.194
And I guess just, and I don't see the value in that now, maybe in the broader

00:57:32.194 --> 00:57:34.854
picture, like you were saying on the internet or something, but to me,

00:57:34.974 --> 00:57:40.134
I'm just like, I, I, why, if I need an ID, can I still just use a piece of plastic or a piece of paper?

00:57:40.274 --> 00:57:44.034
Like I don't, I'm very wary, I guess, of that co-opting of that language.

00:57:44.254 --> 00:57:47.254
Oh, I'll add to that. Cause that's kind of where my mind was going is that what,

00:57:47.254 --> 00:57:48.834
what he was saying is really interesting.

00:57:48.994 --> 00:57:51.494
And I appreciate James addition to that. Cause it goes in a different direction,

00:57:51.734 --> 00:57:54.034
which makes sense. But so what kind of what.

00:57:54.842 --> 00:57:59.162
Derek was hinting at, I think is that, you know, clearly, people are going to push back.

00:57:59.342 --> 00:58:02.982
So there's going to be at least I would argue whether they manipulate or not,

00:58:03.142 --> 00:58:06.142
somebody out there is going to go here's something like, this is what I thought

00:58:06.142 --> 00:58:09.982
is the possibility in this, here's something you can use to pirate the system, right?

00:58:10.042 --> 00:58:13.102
Here's your fake digital idea that you can use to get inside and be able to broadcast.

00:58:13.342 --> 00:58:16.882
Isn't that kind of what we're doing with Corbett with our YouTube pirate streams?

00:58:17.022 --> 00:58:19.722
You know, it's like we're finding a way to circumvent it. So we're not complying,

00:58:19.862 --> 00:58:21.322
but we're still working through the system.

00:58:21.422 --> 00:58:24.582
So that's kind of where mine was going earlier, the idea that you could find

00:58:24.582 --> 00:58:26.282
a way to make your own and then work inside of it.

00:58:26.382 --> 00:58:30.582
But at the same time, you know, somebody would see that and then try to,

00:58:30.742 --> 00:58:33.722
you know, you get the mainstream alternative media version of your thing that

00:58:33.722 --> 00:58:35.082
gets you and you're trapped in the same way.

00:58:35.162 --> 00:58:38.302
So we have to be skeptical. But I think the idea is, you know,

00:58:38.462 --> 00:58:41.222
this is if this inevitably continues to go in this direction,

00:58:41.222 --> 00:58:44.002
if we box ourselves out and sit in a corner, we're not, you know,

00:58:44.102 --> 00:58:46.542
other than I don't mean that, obviously, we're going to keep working,

00:58:46.642 --> 00:58:47.802
like you said, books and other sides,

00:58:48.042 --> 00:58:52.022
other ways, but we're missing out on that major reach, there will inevitably

00:58:52.022 --> 00:58:54.622
become an effort, if it's possible to sort of hack your way through.

00:58:54.962 --> 00:58:57.302
And I think that makes sense with the way things have always gone in the past.

00:58:57.422 --> 00:58:59.682
I just think that's an interesting thought. So thank you for bringing that up, Akeem.

00:59:00.126 --> 00:59:03.846
Bring on the cypherpunk future. I swear they're pushing it, you know.

00:59:04.626 --> 00:59:08.466
This is just an interesting little tidbit. So Kim Cameron, I mean,

00:59:08.606 --> 00:59:11.126
he's on the board of ID2020.

00:59:11.566 --> 00:59:14.886
He was before he died. By the way, this is interesting. His blog is still up.

00:59:15.086 --> 00:59:19.586
The last post he made was criticizing the COVID lockdowns before he died.

00:59:19.746 --> 00:59:22.766
Not that that has anything to do with each other, but it's just interesting

00:59:22.766 --> 00:59:24.646
on his blog, identityblog.org.

00:59:25.406 --> 00:59:29.706
But it was really funny because he used this term sovereign self-identity.

00:59:29.906 --> 00:59:35.186
And then I think he presented it to the UN and they all hated it because of the word sovereign.

00:59:35.586 --> 00:59:39.946
They're like, oh, this sounds like some this sounds like some hippie dippy.

00:59:41.626 --> 00:59:44.846
Hippie dippy stuff. It really didn't like that idea.

00:59:45.686 --> 00:59:50.726
But Derek is right. They will try to co-opt that language exactly as they have with everything else.

00:59:50.966 --> 00:59:55.186
Sustainability, for example. I mean, there's the concept is fine.

00:59:55.346 --> 00:59:58.786
It's the way, what they mean by it and the way they could have corrupted it. Right.

00:59:58.886 --> 01:00:02.126
But again, on top of that, it's so it's, you could argue there's going to be

01:00:02.126 --> 01:00:05.486
somebody who doesn't just use the language, but literally make something that

01:00:05.486 --> 01:00:07.846
appears to be the way you hack into it.

01:00:07.866 --> 01:00:11.186
But that's the trap in it of itself. Like there's what's a good example of that today.

01:00:11.566 --> 01:00:13.986
I can't think of anything. I know there's some kind of an overlap like that.

01:00:14.126 --> 01:00:17.606
It'd be like a privacy front end to X or. Yeah.

01:00:17.966 --> 01:00:21.946
Oh, like the privacy phone sold by Eric Prince. Thank you. Exactly.

01:00:21.946 --> 01:00:24.206
Yeah, that's the guy. He's like, he's legit.

01:00:24.666 --> 01:00:29.526
No, I'm just kidding. Don't get his phones. But like one note to add on to that.

01:00:29.746 --> 01:00:34.566
So it is possible, Ryan, and I've tossed some ideas back and forth from people

01:00:34.566 --> 01:00:37.546
who've read the spec and we'd be like, should we do this?

01:00:37.706 --> 01:00:41.646
And on one hand, it feels really weird. I don't want to just mimic them.

01:00:42.026 --> 01:00:45.186
On the other hand, you do need trust and reputation systems,

01:00:45.906 --> 01:00:49.746
but it would still work the same way. It'd be very, very similar.

01:00:50.606 --> 01:00:54.006
You could still have QR codes and all that. So that doesn't leave a good taste

01:00:54.006 --> 01:00:55.606
in people's mouths. But if.

01:00:56.471 --> 01:01:00.651
We we did want to build something like that. Where was I going with this?

01:01:00.831 --> 01:01:07.411
I was just saying that I was saying that it's possible. It's possible to do it.

01:01:07.991 --> 01:01:13.951
Just it may before before we had these trust and reputation systems,

01:01:13.971 --> 01:01:15.691
all you had was each other's words.

01:01:15.991 --> 01:01:18.231
So it was through the people, you know, the people, you know.

01:01:18.551 --> 01:01:25.411
And so you could have you could have digital identities that are signed by other people as well.

01:01:25.411 --> 01:01:32.731
But instead of having an issuing authority like Apple or Google or the government,

01:01:32.951 --> 01:01:35.291
it would be signed by that individual person.

01:01:35.891 --> 01:01:40.071
Now, you could build this theoretically. You could start using it.

01:01:40.191 --> 01:01:44.131
But the problem is that Google and Apple will not. They don't want to let this happen.

01:01:44.411 --> 01:01:49.451
Apple is a lockdown ecosystem. By 2027, Google phones, Samsung phones,

01:01:49.571 --> 01:01:50.631
anything that's Android based

01:01:50.631 --> 01:01:56.751
will not let you install apps unless the developer hands over their ID,

01:01:57.231 --> 01:02:01.631
their government ID to Google, and also gives them the master key to their app

01:02:01.631 --> 01:02:03.431
so Google can make changes anytime they want.

01:02:03.591 --> 01:02:08.331
They see this coming. You know, they've already felt the threat of open source

01:02:08.331 --> 01:02:09.671
and they're doing things.

01:02:09.671 --> 01:02:15.371
So it is seriously a digital fracturing where the, you know,

01:02:15.431 --> 01:02:18.711
the mainstream side of the populace won't be able to interact with our tech

01:02:18.711 --> 01:02:23.291
and our tech will probably, you know, vice versa. We won't be able to interact with theirs.

01:02:24.208 --> 01:02:27.048
I just want to say one more thing. I know we're going to wrap up in a moment

01:02:27.048 --> 01:02:28.288
because of what you said, Hakeem.

01:02:28.588 --> 01:02:31.528
So that's actually what Charles Hoskinson talks about. He says that this is

01:02:31.528 --> 01:02:34.668
going to be a sovereign ID stored on a blockchain, not accessible to any third

01:02:34.668 --> 01:02:37.728
party with all these protections built in if people trust him.

01:02:37.728 --> 01:02:40.868
But I have a feeling, and this is where I'm curious to everybody listening to

01:02:40.868 --> 01:02:44.728
this across all the different platforms, are you guys – I think the audience

01:02:44.728 --> 01:02:48.788
is just genuinely against digital IDs of any kind of concept like that,

01:02:48.828 --> 01:02:50.068
whether that's silly or not.

01:02:50.128 --> 01:02:53.288
I think for the most part – and please do comment and let us know what you think

01:02:53.288 --> 01:02:57.588
– if there was a possibility of what Hakim is describing or reputation system

01:02:57.588 --> 01:02:59.388
that James mentioned, some way

01:02:59.388 --> 01:03:02.328
to do these things that doesn't involve government, shady corporations,

01:03:02.488 --> 01:03:03.848
et cetera, but is done in a private

01:03:03.848 --> 01:03:07.128
way that is useful in you and your communities and things like that.

01:03:07.128 --> 01:03:09.848
Is that something people out there are still interested in?

01:03:10.028 --> 01:03:14.628
Or is it just like digital ID, whether it's government or private or corporate,

01:03:14.808 --> 01:03:15.928
I don't want anything to do with it.

01:03:16.468 --> 01:03:19.988
I'll start with that and we can kind of wrap on it. I think most definitely

01:03:19.988 --> 01:03:22.448
is something that I don't want at all.

01:03:22.528 --> 01:03:25.268
And I think it was James that said that, like in any way, or maybe it was you, Derek.

01:03:26.288 --> 01:03:30.688
I like the personal self-responsibility and trust factor of meeting people.

01:03:30.868 --> 01:03:34.208
But my point was simply that we may end up in a world where that is the reality

01:03:34.208 --> 01:03:37.888
and that may be the only way to sort of, you know, pirate stream your way past it.

01:03:37.988 --> 01:03:40.828
But I'm of the mind that I would like to go in any direction other than that.

01:03:40.908 --> 01:03:42.148
But it's a good question to ask.

01:03:42.288 --> 01:03:45.348
So why don't we finish up going around with final thoughts? Go ahead,

01:03:45.388 --> 01:03:46.208
Kim, you want to kick it off?

01:03:47.308 --> 01:03:51.988
No, I thought this was an awesome conversation. I think we should have this

01:03:51.988 --> 01:03:56.088
conversation more because, you know, as we know, this is just one component

01:03:56.088 --> 01:03:57.788
of digital public infrastructure.

01:03:58.268 --> 01:04:01.788
Digital ID is the first. Next comes unified payments through those payment apps.

01:04:02.188 --> 01:04:06.688
And last is the data exchange piece. So I think we should keep talking about

01:04:06.688 --> 01:04:09.508
this. It's time moves on. Seems like there's something new every week.

01:04:10.028 --> 01:04:15.408
But I'm just grateful to have this conversation with y'all. And check out the digital ID report.

01:04:15.668 --> 01:04:21.128
It's on abovephone.com slash digital. You can download it. You'll just need to give your email on it.

01:04:21.488 --> 01:04:25.768
And I'm going to try and keep it updated as things move on in time.

01:04:26.288 --> 01:04:29.968
So, yeah, I hope we can just get more visibility onto the subject.

01:04:29.968 --> 01:04:34.868
And also, I'm interested in the conversations people are having with their community, right?

01:04:34.948 --> 01:04:37.288
What's the most effective ways we can get through to others?

01:04:37.288 --> 01:04:42.088
Because we will need a network to actively resist this and thrive in the face of it.

01:04:46.641 --> 01:04:49.821
Go ahead, guys. Just final thoughts if you want to jump in. My final thought

01:04:49.821 --> 01:04:53.101
is I'm just hoping for a Category 5 solar storm.

01:04:54.421 --> 01:05:00.401
That would kind of solve everything. But just keep on trucking,

01:05:00.661 --> 01:05:04.021
I think, and get used to being uncomfortable.

01:05:04.961 --> 01:05:09.401
Just yesterday, I was thinking what James said about not having the number for Telegram.

01:05:09.541 --> 01:05:14.481
But I had been planning this for a while. and I'm trying to get Apple subscription

01:05:14.481 --> 01:05:19.441
to put my podcast ad free on the Apple and it's been taking a week to go through

01:05:19.441 --> 01:05:21.001
the EU Digital Services Act.

01:05:21.121 --> 01:05:25.681
It's absolute madness but I bought a virtual number for five bucks a month.

01:05:26.441 --> 01:05:29.721
Ten bucks would have been probably too much for me but five bucks a month,

01:05:29.861 --> 01:05:33.981
okay and I was thinking maybe James, that would have that could have been an

01:05:33.981 --> 01:05:35.741
option for you and a virtual address.

01:05:35.941 --> 01:05:41.281
I found the deal for 76 bucks a year for a virtual address which isn't too shabby

01:05:41.281 --> 01:05:45.401
but But privacy is going to increasingly come financially at a premium,

01:05:45.721 --> 01:05:50.481
so economically, but also in terms of the time and energy that we're going to spend.

01:05:50.741 --> 01:05:56.241
But I think we just need to keep just like all of our forefathers in the past,

01:05:56.321 --> 01:05:58.141
right? Just keep on trucking.

01:06:00.281 --> 01:06:03.101
So my answer to the question is that i think it's

01:06:03.101 --> 01:06:06.181
naive to think that we'll be able to ever have communities larger than

01:06:06.181 --> 01:06:10.621
the dunbar number without some form of identification reputation

01:06:10.621 --> 01:06:15.181
whatever it is and i think we should be actively thinking about that and constructing

01:06:15.181 --> 01:06:18.801
ones that work for us and i realize now i should not have said ebay because

01:06:18.801 --> 01:06:23.641
everyone will go ebay well okay i i never bought anything on the og russell

01:06:23.641 --> 01:06:26.481
brick silk road but i'm betting they had a reputation system too.

01:06:26.781 --> 01:06:29.661
So there you go. If you want to be in the counter economy, you're going to need

01:06:29.661 --> 01:06:32.141
a reputation system. Think about how to do it.

01:06:34.101 --> 01:06:42.841
No, that's absolutely correct. And I think about how you want to and can network

01:06:42.841 --> 01:06:45.921
either through, you know.

01:06:48.235 --> 01:06:52.195
Skating around uh whatever internet

01:06:52.195 --> 01:06:55.915
laws or restrictions there may be or

01:06:55.915 --> 01:07:00.735
uh you know how you can share information

01:07:00.735 --> 01:07:04.855
and share commodities with people uh in

01:07:04.855 --> 01:07:07.715
a world that you're no.

01:07:07.715 --> 01:07:10.755
Longer participating in the online part of

01:07:10.755 --> 01:07:13.535
if it comes to it like all of this stuff has to

01:07:13.535 --> 01:07:16.875
be sort of planned out you can't be just you know

01:07:16.875 --> 01:07:21.155
little isolated pockets of semi-resistance

01:07:21.155 --> 01:07:24.655
you do have to maintain connections

01:07:24.655 --> 01:07:28.015
into the broader world so you know

01:07:28.015 --> 01:07:34.875
think about how you might want to do that while you're at it um i

01:07:34.875 --> 01:07:37.775
would say that um well hakim is absolutely right we

01:07:37.775 --> 01:07:40.695
we should talk about this more because there's a lot of stuff we've we've

01:07:40.695 --> 01:07:43.795
barely grazed over like there's the situation in the uk is just

01:07:43.795 --> 01:07:46.735
a fascinating microcosm of this and there's

01:07:46.735 --> 01:07:49.915
the um the whole concept of international interoperability which

01:07:49.915 --> 01:07:54.855
we just glanced over again um and

01:07:54.855 --> 01:07:58.075
i have a final thought i suppose which is more of a question and

01:07:58.075 --> 01:08:00.875
i that i genuinely don't know the answer to and maybe a

01:08:00.875 --> 01:08:04.535
big concept to introduce when we're supposed to be stopping but what is

01:08:04.535 --> 01:08:08.835
more important complicity or

01:08:08.835 --> 01:08:11.475
awareness like just say we get to

01:08:11.475 --> 01:08:14.475
2030 and the system is in place internationally there's

01:08:14.475 --> 01:08:19.855
digital ID for everybody everywhere and you have two options you can either

01:08:19.855 --> 01:08:27.495
have 90% complicity and the 10% aren't on the internet they're not anywhere

01:08:27.495 --> 01:08:31.715
they're living little agrarian lives or whatever totally separate from the digital

01:08:31.715 --> 01:08:34.055
control grid and and the 90%.

01:08:36.145 --> 01:08:40.345
45% of the 90% are aware that the system is wrong.

01:08:41.305 --> 01:08:45.965
Or you can have 80% complicity and the 20% have scraped off and doing their own thing.

01:08:46.125 --> 01:08:49.745
But all 80 of those 80% are totally fine with it.

01:08:51.005 --> 01:08:52.685
Which of those situations is worse?

01:08:54.305 --> 01:08:57.205
Yeah. Interesting. I think it's an interesting thing to think about.

01:08:57.385 --> 01:08:59.845
I genuinely don't know the answer. It's just something that I was thinking about.

01:08:59.985 --> 01:09:01.805
Well, that's the best kind of, you know, it's thought provoking,

01:09:01.965 --> 01:09:05.285
you know, and just kind of wrap up. I think it's that's what that's why I think

01:09:05.285 --> 01:09:07.145
I've really enjoyed this discussion today.

01:09:07.325 --> 01:09:11.065
And I do agree, kid. I mean, we will do more of these. I think we have one plan

01:09:11.065 --> 01:09:13.665
coming up for the general control grid with Catherine, you know,

01:09:13.765 --> 01:09:17.825
but it's there are points we interoperability like I recommend and I'll include

01:09:17.825 --> 01:09:20.965
in the show notes, you know, Hakeem's outline because this is,

01:09:21.085 --> 01:09:22.245
I think, one of the central parts in it.

01:09:22.325 --> 01:09:25.885
But, you know, it's what I enjoyed today was the thought provoking ideas that

01:09:25.885 --> 01:09:27.245
we don't all have the same opinion.

01:09:27.405 --> 01:09:30.205
You know, we definitely see things a different way. And that's what is going

01:09:30.205 --> 01:09:33.905
to happen for each one of us as we as this all continues. So I really appreciated

01:09:33.905 --> 01:09:38.065
more than anything today, Derek and Corbett, you know, this conversation of where your line is.

01:09:38.165 --> 01:09:40.825
I think we need to reflect on that and think about where that is for each of

01:09:40.825 --> 01:09:42.105
us and what choices we're going to make.

01:09:42.305 --> 01:09:45.105
We can't wait until this is in front of you, right? Where they're demanding

01:09:45.105 --> 01:09:46.565
your papers until you make these choices.

01:09:46.705 --> 01:09:49.585
It has to happen now. And you have to plan for where that life is.

01:09:49.885 --> 01:09:51.685
Deliberately plan for where you want your life to go.

01:09:52.425 --> 01:09:56.585
Ryan, I'll just share one last thought real quick. Just reiterate what everybody

01:09:56.585 --> 01:09:57.905
said. This has been a great conversation.

01:09:58.045 --> 01:10:00.825
I hope everybody listening is taking something from it in terms of,

01:10:01.415 --> 01:10:04.595
Getting these thoughts in your mind, talking about this with your family,

01:10:04.695 --> 01:10:07.615
with your loved ones, with your churches, your communities, what have you,

01:10:07.715 --> 01:10:10.555
your neighborhoods, because these are conversations we need to be having.

01:10:11.235 --> 01:10:14.835
And I am sometimes black-filled, like James was saying earlier,

01:10:14.975 --> 01:10:17.415
with like, this is going forward. There's nothing we can do to stop it.

01:10:17.575 --> 01:10:21.535
You know, that's why I tend to focus on exit and build, try to build outside the system.

01:10:21.675 --> 01:10:25.655
I still think that, for me, is the path. But I recognize there's many paths.

01:10:26.215 --> 01:10:29.955
And I'll just end with one of the things my grandmother used to tell me was

01:10:29.955 --> 01:10:31.515
that as long as there's life, there's hope.

01:10:31.635 --> 01:10:35.055
And I try to remember that with everything going on. It's like even if the cage

01:10:35.055 --> 01:10:38.735
gets tighter and tighter, you know, if we're still breathing and we're still,

01:10:39.115 --> 01:10:43.375
as you were saying, Kit, keeping this in the consciousness and having people being aware of this.

01:10:43.515 --> 01:10:46.455
However, we have to navigate that, even if it's not perfectly in line with our

01:10:46.455 --> 01:10:47.855
principles, which is going to be difficult.

01:10:47.975 --> 01:10:51.535
And I think we should still strive to stick to them, even if we end up in that

01:10:51.535 --> 01:10:54.895
place. If we're alive, if we're breathing, the resistance is still going on,

01:10:54.975 --> 01:10:56.095
and that means there's still a chance.

01:10:56.515 --> 01:11:00.695
And yet we shouldn't let it get to the point where it feels impossible to go

01:11:00.695 --> 01:11:04.095
back and to resist it, you know, because we've all seen what past totalitarian

01:11:04.095 --> 01:11:06.575
regimes have done without any of this infrastructure.

01:11:06.995 --> 01:11:09.875
So we know what they think they can do once they have it in place.

01:11:10.435 --> 01:11:13.435
Great point, Derek. Well, it's a good place to wrap, guys, and I hope you'll

01:11:13.435 --> 01:11:17.495
join us for the next one. There'll be plenty more coming. As always, question everything.

01:11:17.795 --> 01:11:19.635
Come to your own conclusions. Stay vigilant.

01:11:20.375 --> 01:11:26.515
In the long term, the plan is to pretty much lock up humanity in smart cities,

01:11:27.535 --> 01:11:30.535
which is kind of a superset of a 15-minute city.

01:11:31.761 --> 01:11:34.921
They've sold all the state and local governments

01:11:34.921 --> 01:11:37.861
and countries that smart

01:11:37.861 --> 01:11:40.641
cities are about sustainability and the

01:11:40.641 --> 01:11:45.981
good of the city but in reality the language from the un and wef and their white

01:11:45.981 --> 01:11:52.781
papers is all inverted so their monitoring is really about limiting mobility

01:11:52.781 --> 01:12:00.321
and no car ownership right surveillance control via led grid is why the smart lighting is death,

01:12:01.301 --> 01:12:03.241
Water management is about water rationing.

01:12:03.321 --> 01:12:05.301
Noise pollution is about speed surveillance.

01:12:05.741 --> 01:12:08.181
Traffic monitoring is about limiting mobility.

01:12:08.761 --> 01:12:13.761
And then, of course, energy conservation is all about rationing heat,

01:12:13.921 --> 01:12:15.101
electricity, and gasoline.

01:12:15.681 --> 01:12:19.241
Another concept one should be familiar with is called geofencing.

01:12:19.501 --> 01:12:25.121
And think of it as an invisible fence around you where you cannot go beyond

01:12:25.121 --> 01:12:28.501
a certain point. And that will be related to your face recognition,

01:12:28.741 --> 01:12:30.541
digital identity and access control.

01:12:30.881 --> 01:12:35.241
Your smart contracts, SoftBrick can turn off your digital currency beyond a

01:12:35.241 --> 01:12:37.001
certain point from your house.

01:12:37.301 --> 01:12:40.801
Our world has been turned into a digital panopticon.

01:12:41.341 --> 01:12:46.801
That means you can be monitored, analyzed, managed and monetized.

01:12:55.961 --> 01:12:56.481
I don't know.