WEBVTT 00:00:00.937 --> 00:00:03.877 Welcome, friends. This is James Corbett of CorbettReport.com, 00:00:03.917 --> 00:00:10.177 reporting today via GlobalResearch.ca on the Kuala Lumpur Initiative to Criminalize War. 00:00:10.357 --> 00:00:13.137 For those who have not seen my recent report on this subject, 00:00:13.197 --> 00:00:14.957 I would suggest that you check it out. 00:00:15.097 --> 00:00:20.677 It is called War is a Crime, and it presents the proceedings of a conference 00:00:20.677 --> 00:00:24.657 that took place in Kuala Lumpur in Malaysia just a few weeks ago. 00:00:24.797 --> 00:00:29.717 And I was in attendance at that conference. It was a 20th anniversary commemoration 00:00:29.717 --> 00:00:33.937 of the signing of the Kuala Lumpur Initiative to Criminalize War. 00:00:34.157 --> 00:00:38.557 And all of the background and meaning and explanation of that initiative is 00:00:38.557 --> 00:00:41.917 provided in that aforementioned report. So I will put that in the show notes 00:00:41.917 --> 00:00:44.037 so that you can go and check it out if you have not yet done so. 00:00:44.257 --> 00:00:49.397 Along with my interview with former Malaysian Prime Minister Tun Dr. 00:00:49.537 --> 00:00:55.377 Mahathir Mohamad, the person who spearheaded, launched, and helped to sign that initial declaration. 00:00:55.377 --> 00:01:01.857 Long story short, that declaration was a bold and obviously aspirational, 00:01:01.857 --> 00:01:04.677 but very important and very simple idea. 00:01:05.137 --> 00:01:10.957 Simply the idea that aggressive war is a crime in and of itself and deserves 00:01:10.957 --> 00:01:13.057 to be prosecuted as such. 00:01:13.717 --> 00:01:17.557 Now, again, that's an interesting concept, and you can see my report on that 00:01:17.557 --> 00:01:22.537 anniversary commemoration that I attended so that you can find out more about 00:01:22.537 --> 00:01:25.677 that idea, where it came from, how it unfolded, and where it's going. 00:01:26.157 --> 00:01:29.997 But as part of those proceedings, Professor Michel Chosodovsky, 00:01:30.077 --> 00:01:34.057 who was one of the original signers of that original declaration back in 2005, 00:01:34.377 --> 00:01:37.557 was, of course, invited to attend that event, but was unable to. 00:01:37.557 --> 00:01:44.137 So I attended in his stead, but I was able to record a conversation with Professor 00:01:44.137 --> 00:01:49.057 Chosodovsky, his reflections and ruminations on the meaning of that 20th anniversary 00:01:49.057 --> 00:01:49.917 of that initiative today. 00:01:50.910 --> 00:01:54.830 What is that initiative? Why is it important? What does it say that we have 00:01:54.830 --> 00:02:00.470 made, if not little progress, perhaps even the antithesis of progress towards 00:02:00.470 --> 00:02:02.890 that ideal of criminalizing war? 00:02:03.110 --> 00:02:06.910 And Professor Chosodovsky has some very interesting things to say about that, 00:02:07.050 --> 00:02:10.790 along the lines of, well, we have not made progress on criminalizing war, 00:02:10.910 --> 00:02:16.030 but we have made progress on criminalizing politics, criminalizing justice, 00:02:16.490 --> 00:02:17.730 criminalizing economics? 00:02:17.930 --> 00:02:21.050 What does he mean by those statements? 00:02:21.090 --> 00:02:24.410 I think it's a fascinating and interesting idea, so I trust that you will find 00:02:24.410 --> 00:02:27.830 a lot of food for thought in this presentation. 00:02:28.110 --> 00:02:33.030 So without further ado, I will present the presentation that Professor Chosodowski 00:02:33.030 --> 00:02:38.650 recorded for that Kuala Lumpur commemoration, and I will leave it there for today. 00:02:38.790 --> 00:02:42.950 This is James Corbett of CorbettReport.com reporting for GlobalResearch.ca. 00:02:45.790 --> 00:02:48.910 Welcome, friends. This is James Corbett of CorbettReport.com, 00:02:49.010 --> 00:02:52.650 reporting for Global Research TV at GlobalResearch.ca. 00:02:52.850 --> 00:02:58.250 Today I'm talking to Michel Chosodovsky, obviously the editor of GlobalResearch.ca, 00:02:58.470 --> 00:03:01.190 also the founder of the Center for Research on Globalization, 00:03:01.430 --> 00:03:06.890 about his participation in the criminalization of war, specifically the Kuala 00:03:06.890 --> 00:03:12.610 Lumpur Initiative on the criminalization of war that was first signed in 2005, 00:03:12.610 --> 00:03:16.270 so 20 years ago. Michelle Chosodowski, thank you for your time today. 00:03:17.809 --> 00:03:22.049 Delighted to be on the program. In many regards, 00:03:22.169 --> 00:03:30.829 this is the message also to my colleagues and friends in Kuala Lumpur, 00:03:30.829 --> 00:03:40.209 because on the 30th of this month, we are commemorating the 20th anniversary. 00:03:40.209 --> 00:03:51.289 And it is also based on the fact that Tun Mahathir Mohamed, 00:03:51.529 --> 00:04:00.749 who founded the Criminalization of War Initiative, will be honored at this meeting. 00:04:02.049 --> 00:04:13.409 So that in many regards we are doing a certain retrospect of what has happened in the last 20 years, 00:04:14.529 --> 00:04:17.609 which by many, in many regards, 00:04:17.669 --> 00:04:23.949 is not very encouraging because we were focusing on the criminalization of war 00:04:23.949 --> 00:04:35.929 in 2005 with a view to confronting major war initiatives. 00:04:36.409 --> 00:04:44.769 And, of course, that was also the action against Israel on the one hand, 00:04:44.769 --> 00:04:51.089 and then we had the Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Tribunal, and then we had also, of course, 00:04:51.649 --> 00:04:56.009 action against the invasion of Iraq. 00:04:56.609 --> 00:05:00.569 Tony Blair, and George W. Bush. 00:05:01.789 --> 00:05:13.709 What I have been able to assess in the course of these 20 years is that visibly today, 00:05:14.229 --> 00:05:18.609 although that was also true in 2005. 00:05:20.276 --> 00:05:27.316 There has been what we might describe as the criminalization of justice. 00:05:27.916 --> 00:05:33.996 Not the criminalization. International law is there, and it can't be changed 00:05:33.996 --> 00:05:42.776 because it's based on concepts which were defined starting in 1948 with the Genocide Convention. 00:05:43.136 --> 00:05:50.096 But the issue is that the judicial system today at the global level is criminalized. 00:05:50.276 --> 00:05:57.276 And we've seen that with the International Criminal Court and the International 00:05:57.276 --> 00:06:01.556 Court of Justice, the two main pillars of international law. 00:06:01.856 --> 00:06:07.236 And then, of course, there are other entities which are created in relation 00:06:07.236 --> 00:06:15.016 to a specific war like regarding, let's say, Rwanda or, you know. 00:06:15.796 --> 00:06:18.136 And of course, Yugoslavia. 00:06:18.136 --> 00:06:28.416 But the question there is that the criminalization of justice is linked up to 00:06:28.416 --> 00:06:37.036 what I would describe as the criminalization of politics in the sense that, 00:06:37.476 --> 00:06:42.076 well, in 2005, we still had honest government up to a point. 00:06:42.576 --> 00:06:51.936 We still had the welfare state in Western countries. We had movements in the global south. 00:06:52.816 --> 00:06:58.656 And what has now occurred is that if we look at the West, so-called, 00:06:58.936 --> 00:07:05.816 in other words, the United States, Canada, and the European Union, or Western Europe, 00:07:07.016 --> 00:07:13.156 there is a consensus that genocide is a legitimate undertaking. 00:07:13.156 --> 00:07:16.136 And now... 00:07:18.071 --> 00:07:22.431 When I say there's a criminalization of politics, it means that politicians 00:07:22.431 --> 00:07:27.411 are endorsing genocide against the people of Palestine. 00:07:28.311 --> 00:07:32.531 International law tells us exactly the opposite. 00:07:33.811 --> 00:07:41.871 It says Article 3E of the Genocide Convention, 00:07:42.151 --> 00:07:47.411 1948, that any complicity in 00:07:47.411 --> 00:07:54.971 an act of genocide would be passable of punishment and a legal procedure. 00:07:56.591 --> 00:08:05.071 And that we should understand that the political apparatus is criminalized. 00:08:06.071 --> 00:08:12.451 And unfortunately, the peace movement is not confronting or is not in a position 00:08:12.451 --> 00:08:17.331 to actually confront the politicians and say, well, you are a criminal. 00:08:17.831 --> 00:08:26.211 Now, that applies. It applies in Palestine, but it applies in many other instances. 00:08:27.191 --> 00:08:35.551 Genocide was also instrumented in the invasions of Afghanistan. 00:08:37.591 --> 00:08:43.311 And Iraq. Now, the invasion of Afghanistan was based on the fact, 00:08:43.951 --> 00:08:49.671 not on the fact, but on the illusion that Al-Qaeda had attacked America. Okay? 00:08:50.531 --> 00:08:54.931 Now, I don't want to get into that, but it's... 00:08:55.899 --> 00:09:01.899 Pretty well established that, first of all, al-Qaeda was created by U.S. 00:09:02.079 --> 00:09:13.279 Intelligence, and al-Qaeda in Arabic means the base, the base on the computer system of U.S. 00:09:13.419 --> 00:09:20.879 Intelligence, and consequently, it was the base of all those who had been recruited. 00:09:22.159 --> 00:09:25.619 So this is the background. Now, there's a lot more about that, 00:09:25.799 --> 00:09:32.599 and I think there's one element which has to be addressed, is the criminalization 00:09:32.599 --> 00:09:34.819 of the financial apparatus. 00:09:35.919 --> 00:09:40.659 I'm not saying the criminalization. I would make the distinction between the 00:09:40.659 --> 00:09:44.099 criminalization of the financial apparatus, 00:09:44.839 --> 00:09:51.119 the large banking institutions, and so on, on the one hand, and then you have, 00:09:51.419 --> 00:09:52.959 of course, the global economy. 00:09:52.959 --> 00:09:55.059 I'm talking about the real economy. 00:09:55.519 --> 00:10:00.239 And the real economy is not a homogeneous. It's still a capitalist system. 00:10:00.359 --> 00:10:06.299 But you have industry, you have agriculture, you have the airlines. 00:10:06.999 --> 00:10:12.639 Now, it's not to say that the real economy is criminalized, 00:10:12.659 --> 00:10:22.659 but the financial apparatus has a holding on real economic activity precisely 00:10:22.659 --> 00:10:25.479 because it controls the debt. 00:10:26.019 --> 00:10:34.679 And it can impose devastating impacts on the nation-state so that literally 00:10:34.679 --> 00:10:39.219 what we have also is that the welfare state is more or less on the way out. 00:10:40.579 --> 00:10:44.219 They're remnants of the welfare state in some of the Western countries. 00:10:46.059 --> 00:10:54.019 And if we're looking at a broader context, and this was brought to my attention 00:10:54.019 --> 00:11:00.659 in regards to the occupation of Syria. 00:11:00.879 --> 00:11:07.479 Well, first of all, what the Western military alliance, NATO and the United 00:11:07.479 --> 00:11:13.959 States have installed there is a head of state which is affiliated to al-Qaeda. 00:11:15.199 --> 00:11:18.839 And in other words, Al-Qaeda becomes the, 00:11:20.421 --> 00:11:27.601 becomes legit in regards to a nation state, which is Syria. 00:11:28.141 --> 00:11:35.181 But then there's another element that war on Syria, 00:11:35.401 --> 00:11:43.621 and more generally on the Levant, the whole area of the eastern Mediterranean, 00:11:43.621 --> 00:11:49.341 is a crime against civilization. 00:11:50.421 --> 00:11:56.521 And the crime against civilization is indicated by the fact that. 00:12:00.601 --> 00:12:07.081 Damascus is a city which has existed for several thousand years. 00:12:07.461 --> 00:12:16.741 And Aleppo has even a longer history. In other words, the Levant is being destroyed. 00:12:17.101 --> 00:12:18.961 Civilization is being destroyed. 00:12:19.361 --> 00:12:24.061 History is being destroyed. And people's minds are being destroyed because they 00:12:24.061 --> 00:12:28.321 don't understand what humanity involves. 00:12:29.341 --> 00:12:40.101 And I think the big message by Tun Mahathir is that this is a war against humanity. 00:12:40.861 --> 00:12:48.901 It's a much more extensive war than what we had contemplated 20 years ago now the other element, 00:12:49.981 --> 00:12:56.641 and this should be understood and it's part of a hegemonic project I wouldn't 00:12:56.641 --> 00:13:04.521 necessarily call this US imperialism because US imperialism the United States is in crisis as well. 00:13:08.221 --> 00:13:15.561 But if you look at the history of empires, you can't really build an empire with a republic. 00:13:15.961 --> 00:13:20.921 I think Julius Caesar invoked that concept many years ago. 00:13:20.921 --> 00:13:30.821 But the thing is that the whole process of warfare now, from an economic standpoint, 00:13:31.361 --> 00:13:42.361 is to acquire control largely over strategic resources and energy, 00:13:42.861 --> 00:13:46.541 and specifically oil and gas. 00:13:46.541 --> 00:13:56.881 And recent events in Venezuela demonstrate that, in that Venezuela today is 00:13:56.881 --> 00:13:58.521 the largest oil producer, 00:13:58.861 --> 00:14:05.361 it's the largest in terms of reserves of oil and natural gas. It's number one. 00:14:06.281 --> 00:14:11.741 And consequently now, the... 00:14:13.643 --> 00:14:24.203 The Trump administration has created what is tantamount to a terrorism entity within Latin America. 00:14:24.423 --> 00:14:34.543 Of course, they can't use the same concepts of Islamism and recruitment of jihadists and so on. 00:14:34.703 --> 00:14:42.483 But there it is associated with organized crime. But the organized crime has 00:14:42.483 --> 00:14:45.503 never been controlled by Venezuela. 00:14:46.243 --> 00:14:49.843 And I know I worked in Venezuela at one time. 00:14:50.143 --> 00:14:54.723 I was there at the time when they actually were. 00:14:56.903 --> 00:15:03.723 And that was back in the 1970s when they nationalized petroleum. 00:15:03.723 --> 00:15:10.363 It was negotiated with big oil. 00:15:10.463 --> 00:15:14.903 Obviously, that was a semi-colony of the United States. 00:15:15.203 --> 00:15:18.243 But nonetheless, the legal process was completed. 00:15:18.543 --> 00:15:26.423 But what I'm saying here is that every single country on the planet is, 00:15:26.623 --> 00:15:30.323 if they don't conform, they will be, 00:15:30.603 --> 00:15:37.263 the intervention will be through 00:15:37.263 --> 00:15:44.143 a regime change or a color revolution or whatever you want to describe it. 00:15:44.343 --> 00:16:00.523 But in fact, it's how the intelligence apparatus of the West manages to create conditions, 00:16:00.523 --> 00:16:06.603 whether it's in regards to elections or whether it's in regards to a particular 00:16:06.603 --> 00:16:11.343 head of state or head of government that they want to get rid of, 00:16:11.603 --> 00:16:13.543 that has become the norm. 00:16:14.123 --> 00:16:26.543 We've lived that virtually through the whole post-colonial period in different countries, 00:16:26.863 --> 00:16:31.563 but it would appear now that this is a generalized agenda, 00:16:31.943 --> 00:16:39.043 in other words, regime change, incited by foreign interference and so on. 00:16:40.083 --> 00:16:49.683 Now, all of this would never have occurred had they not also, 00:16:50.083 --> 00:16:53.863 right from the beginning, but that was true also in 2005, 00:16:54.863 --> 00:16:56.483 the criminalization of the media. 00:16:57.412 --> 00:17:11.172 Involving censorship, but also where, I mean, when I made the reference to genocide in Palestine. 00:17:12.372 --> 00:17:18.852 We are dealing with also another element with regard to the war in Ukraine, 00:17:18.852 --> 00:17:24.912 is that, and it's recognized and it's documented, 00:17:25.312 --> 00:17:29.972 that the government in Ukraine is Nazi or neo-Nazi. 00:17:30.452 --> 00:17:39.772 And consequently, the same laws which pertain to genocide, take Germany. 00:17:40.132 --> 00:17:48.552 Germany has very strict laws on cooperation with entities which are Nazi. 00:17:48.852 --> 00:17:54.152 Or neo-Nazi. Now, it just so happens that the German government is channeling 00:17:54.152 --> 00:18:01.852 weapons and money to a government which is overtly Nazi. 00:18:02.372 --> 00:18:06.772 Now, the media will give you another perspective. 00:18:07.072 --> 00:18:13.472 They might say the extreme right political parties, but they will not acknowledge 00:18:13.472 --> 00:18:16.552 the fact that these aren't Nazis, 00:18:16.892 --> 00:18:28.432 and they are also, it's exactly the same group of Nazis which were collaborating with the Third Reich, 00:18:29.552 --> 00:18:32.112 specifically in western Ukraine. 00:18:33.872 --> 00:18:37.972 And they are there running the government. 00:18:39.272 --> 00:18:42.932 And our laws would say you're not allowed to, 00:18:42.932 --> 00:18:51.952 Our laws in Western countries would come to the conclusion that this is something 00:18:51.952 --> 00:18:59.532 which is also object of trial and punishment and prison. 00:19:00.473 --> 00:19:08.293 Now, so that we have the criminalization of politics, we have the criminalization 00:19:08.293 --> 00:19:13.973 of the judicial system, both internationally and nationally. 00:19:15.293 --> 00:19:22.673 We have prime ministers like Starmer in the United Kingdom who is supportive 00:19:22.673 --> 00:19:27.873 of genocide, in other words, killing children. 00:19:28.793 --> 00:19:36.433 So that, in effect, we are on the border of what we might describe as World 00:19:36.433 --> 00:19:42.973 War III, but we're probably already involved in a third world war. 00:19:43.413 --> 00:19:53.673 Now, to conclude my discussion of these issues, I should mention nuclear war. 00:19:53.673 --> 00:19:58.733 Now, the history of nuclear war is misunderstood. 00:20:00.873 --> 00:20:10.073 It is characterized by the so-called Manhattan Project, which was led by Oppenheimer. 00:20:11.853 --> 00:20:18.293 There's a lot of propaganda around that. But one thing which nobody knows, 00:20:18.953 --> 00:20:24.373 even though it is, well, people do know it because the declassified documents 00:20:24.373 --> 00:20:30.153 are there is that the United States of America on the 15th of September 1945, 00:20:31.473 --> 00:20:34.853 just about a month a 00:20:34.853 --> 00:20:39.233 bit more than a month after Hiroshima and Nagasaki released 00:20:39.233 --> 00:20:45.913 it was the War Department now they call it the Pentagon the War Department issued 00:20:45.913 --> 00:20:55.333 a plan to bomb the Soviet Union 66 cities with 200 atomic bombs. 00:20:57.013 --> 00:20:59.633 And that has always been, 00:21:00.599 --> 00:21:06.379 It has never been mentioned. The documents are there. The media does not cover it. 00:21:09.479 --> 00:21:18.659 And in a sense, what was initiated with the Manhattan Project is the development 00:21:18.659 --> 00:21:25.759 of a weapon which ultimately can destroy humanity in its entirety. 00:21:26.519 --> 00:21:33.659 And that is what we have to address. and we have to demilitarize. 00:21:33.799 --> 00:21:43.659 But I should mention that Obama, when he started his presidency, 00:21:44.279 --> 00:21:48.459 but it was his second mandate, he put together. 00:21:49.439 --> 00:21:54.639 And this is the biggest lie in American history, 00:21:54.639 --> 00:21:58.379 he initiated a 00:21:58.379 --> 00:22:01.939 campaign he said we must ensure that 00:22:01.939 --> 00:22:06.679 the terrorists namely al-Qaeda should not get hold of nuclear weapons because 00:22:06.679 --> 00:22:13.419 that would threaten our security and he had a big campaign internationally on 00:22:13.419 --> 00:22:19.479 the fact that the real threat came from al-Qaeda the base, 00:22:19.719 --> 00:22:29.359 the people that we recruited And if they have possession of nuclear weapons, 00:22:29.699 --> 00:22:31.259 they're going to destroy us. 00:22:31.519 --> 00:22:37.039 Now, there's a whole element of ridicule on that because nuclear weapons, 00:22:37.219 --> 00:22:40.759 you need a delivery system, you need scientists and so on. 00:22:40.759 --> 00:22:45.939 And obviously, Osama bin Laden didn't have those facilities, 00:22:45.939 --> 00:22:56.279 but what he did justify was a budget of $1 trillion for ISIS. 00:22:58.925 --> 00:23:04.425 Assigned specifically to nuclear weapons, $1 trillion. 00:23:05.145 --> 00:23:09.825 And he got the Nobel Prize. He got the Nobel Prize for doing that. 00:23:10.365 --> 00:23:16.625 $1 trillion. Now, you can imagine how many schools and hospitals you can build with $1 trillion. 00:23:16.865 --> 00:23:22.525 But that $1 trillion now goes up to $2 trillion in 2030. It is currently at 00:23:22.525 --> 00:23:30.505 1.3, and it is not regulated by the federal government's audits and expenditures. 00:23:31.425 --> 00:23:39.565 In other words, it's not really part of the budget which is subjected to review 00:23:39.565 --> 00:23:43.025 by the Senate and the House of Representatives and so on. 00:23:43.025 --> 00:23:55.405 So bear in mind, they have increased the budget on nuclear weapons technology 00:23:55.405 --> 00:24:00.245 from $1 trillion to $2 trillion. 00:24:00.825 --> 00:24:12.845 And at the same time, they claim that this will enable peacemaking bombs. 00:24:13.025 --> 00:24:19.945 They actually say that the use of nuclear weapons is preemptive. 00:24:20.065 --> 00:24:21.665 It's there to protect yourself. 00:24:22.045 --> 00:24:25.945 Now, all of this is rubbish from the scientific point of view, 00:24:26.185 --> 00:24:28.345 from the strategic point of view. 00:24:28.565 --> 00:24:34.905 But it is exceedingly dangerous when you have politicians like Donald Trump, 00:24:35.085 --> 00:24:40.905 who has the foggiest idea of the impacts of nuclear war. 00:24:40.905 --> 00:24:46.665 And he said, well, if it's safe for civilians because the explosion is underground 00:24:46.665 --> 00:24:55.745 and we're using certain types of bombs, then let's go ahead and use them. 00:24:55.745 --> 00:25:03.725 And actually, many of these smaller tactical nuclear weapons have been declassified 00:25:03.725 --> 00:25:08.765 and are now within the conventional war theater so that a three-star general, 00:25:08.985 --> 00:25:13.085 legally a three-star general, can go ahead and use it. 00:25:13.085 --> 00:25:18.925 Now, all of this is documented, and I think what we have to do, 00:25:18.965 --> 00:25:26.145 we have to continue with the initiative which was brought. 00:25:26.565 --> 00:25:34.705 Which was launched by Tun Mahathir Mohamed in 2005. 00:25:34.705 --> 00:25:38.185 And it's very important 00:25:38.185 --> 00:25:47.285 that this initiative also extends and leads to dialogue within the peace movements 00:25:47.285 --> 00:25:55.905 and we have to apply international law against those who violate, 00:25:57.530 --> 00:26:02.690 The judicial system is criminalized. We have to decriminalize the judicial system. 00:26:03.590 --> 00:26:08.950 In other words, if our leaders are in favor of genocide, they go to prison. 00:26:09.610 --> 00:26:16.410 That is what a real legal system involves. 00:26:16.790 --> 00:26:25.250 But we notice that exactly the opposite is occurring, because they've turned 00:26:25.250 --> 00:26:30.970 it upside down, And they say killing the Palestinians is a mean to achieve peace in the Middle East. 00:26:36.850 --> 00:26:43.250 And I... You have covered a lot of ground there. Yes. Thank you very much for that. 00:26:44.570 --> 00:26:49.070 In wrapping up, do you have any message for Dr. Tun Mahathir Mohamed or the 00:26:49.070 --> 00:26:52.310 other attendees here at the conference in Kuala Lumpur? 00:26:52.530 --> 00:26:55.510 Well, I have a message of solidarity. 00:26:56.270 --> 00:27:09.730 And I recall very precisely how this dialogue emerged and how Tun Mahathir chaired our sessions. 00:27:11.430 --> 00:27:21.310 And I understand his tremendous political insight that every single person in 00:27:21.310 --> 00:27:24.070 that meeting said something, 00:27:25.010 --> 00:27:33.710 and then at the end Mahathir actually then integrated this into a series of 00:27:33.710 --> 00:27:37.650 concepts that we ultimately, 00:27:38.730 --> 00:27:47.470 which ultimately led to the formulation and then it led to the tribunal and 00:27:47.470 --> 00:27:55.730 so on but there were I don't want to go through there were several hiccups But in substance, 00:27:56.410 --> 00:28:05.570 I think we achieved something which was unique, which went against the stream. 00:28:07.109 --> 00:28:11.509 And I think it is absolutely essential that we continue, 00:28:11.789 --> 00:28:22.789 despite the impediments against this initiative, 00:28:23.229 --> 00:28:29.229 this very powerful initiative of Tun Mahathir Mohamed, 00:28:30.049 --> 00:28:37.869 who has recently celebrated his 100th year, anniversary. 00:28:40.009 --> 00:28:47.049 I think we have to emphasize that we are committed to humanity, 00:28:47.049 --> 00:28:49.489 and we are committed to life, 00:28:49.769 --> 00:29:00.549 and we're committed to civilization, and we must recognize that humanity is a tremendous, 00:29:03.669 --> 00:29:12.969 Well, it has civilizations, and all those civilizations have something in common, 00:29:13.209 --> 00:29:20.009 and that is the value of humanity itself. 00:29:21.529 --> 00:29:25.029 So that would be my concluding notes. And I, 00:29:25.629 --> 00:29:35.489 again, unfortunately, I've not been able to travel to Kuala Lumpur to be with 00:29:35.489 --> 00:29:40.969 my friends and colleagues at this important commemoration. 00:29:42.209 --> 00:29:45.789 Some very profound and sober words for reflection. Thank you very much for sharing 00:29:45.789 --> 00:29:48.089 them with us. Professor Chosodowski, thank you for your time.