Interview 1048 – Michel Chossudovsky on Global Warfare in the New World Order

06/03/201511 Comments

chossudovskysquareCyberwar. Economic war. Covert war. Theatre war. Proxy war. Nuclear war. Today we talk to Michel Chossudovsky about the development of the global multi-front long war against humanity in the emerging New World Order and the propagandists who make it possible.

SHOW NOTES:
GlobalResearch.ca

The Globalization of War. America’s “Long War” against Humanity

TRANSCRIPT:

JC – We are talking once again to Michel Chossudovsky of GlobalResearch.ca. Michel it’s been a while since we had you on the program. The last time we were talking about your new book: The Globalization of War: America’s Long War Against Humanity which, of course, talks about the long war that America and its allies of the NATO empire have been and are currently waging against the population of the world. That long war is quickly developing into a total war with multiple fronts that are really encircling the globe at this point. What can you tell us about this picture of global warfare and how it’s developing?

MC – Well, first of all global warfare is now being waged in all major regions of the world in various forms. In some cases, theatre wars as in Yemin. In Syria and Iraq it’s a US sponsored insurgency, the so-called Islamic State. In Latin America it’s a process of destabilization of national economies, but also militarization, the sending in of Marines to Central America. In Southeast Asia and the Far East it’s the so-called Pivot to Asia. It’s the situation of provocation, largely directed against China. In Ukraine, on Russia’s border, its acts of provocation directed against the Russian Federation and the conquest, essentially, of new frontiers for the global economy. In Africa its US sponsored insurgency, the destabilization of national economies and the battle for oil. Largely, we are dealing with very powerful corporate actors which control and overshadow the governments. If we wish to give it some kind of structure we’re talking about, of course, the oil companies, the big Anglo-American oil companies–Wall Street which is involved in financial destabilization, what Eisenhower called the military-industrial complex which are: the large defense contractors, the mercenary companies, the intelligence and security corporate apparatus that are linked to the US Military and to NATO as well as to media conglomerates which are there serving the process of war propaganda, upholding the corporate agenda. Then, you also have bio-tech conglomerates, big pharma. One dimension of this global war is destruction and demise of the agricultural cycle, the fact that when you introduce genetically modified seeds into a region such as Sub-Saharan Africa you not only destroy agriculture but you destroy bio-diversity and you undermine the livelihood of the entire region. That is happening in countries like India. It’s happening throughout Sub-Saharan Africa and it is part of that global agenda. Global warfare is not limited to military interventions. It uses covert operations. It also is geared toward destabilizing sovereign governments through so-called colored revolutions, you-know the installation of proxy regimes which will obey orders and so on and so forth. It’s a very complex process and we have to connect, in a sense, all the different dimensions of this devastating process which is destroying countries, transforming sovereign nations into territories, opening space for corporations, impoverishing world populations, and that impoverishment is not the consequence of the scarcity of resources. It is the result of manipulation and the destruction of economic and social institutions.

JC – Well, you paint a very vivid and concise picture of the total carnage and warfare that is encircling the globe in a number of different aspects. And you, I think rightly, identify it as part of the corporate government collusion, the fascistic collusion, which is at the heart of this empire of chaos that is reigning around the globe. I guess the obvious question then is “what is the next stage of this global warfare?” Does it develop into hot warfare, in the traditional sense or will it remain on an economic/covert operations level?

MC- Well, I think that, in a sense, the military planners have all options on the table, so to speak, to quote Hillary Clinton. They are involved in covert operations and regime change, the destabilization of national economies and economic sanctions. But they are also contemplating the use of high-tech weapons systems including nuclear war. I say nuclear war is not only targeted toward Russian and China using the arsenal of the Cold War era, in other words the thermonuclear weapons, but it is also directed against non-nuclear states using the so-called tactical nuclear weapons. But then there are other systems. There are other areas of intervention. We know that the USAF has command over what is called “environmental modification” techniques or weather warfare. It’s a controversial subject but it’s very well documented that the US Military can modify the weather and trigger environmental catastrophes. They even use the term, and I quote, “owing the weather for military use”. Then you have all the areas of intervention. You have biological warfare, chemical warfare and of course you have the whole area of cyber-warfare, the destabilization of countries communications systems and so on in the realm of high-tech communications. And then another area of warfare is propaganda. It’s turning realities upside down. It’s presenting America as the protagonist of democracy and inciting people to endorse a so-called anti-terrorist agenda when it is known and documented that these terrorists organization, including Al Qaeda and more recently ISIS (the Islamic State) are creatures of US intelligence. So we are now in a situation where we support a global war on terrorism, including sectors of the progressive left who say, well we are against war but we support the war on terrorism. It’s a non-sequester. Within Western countries there is also an internal war that is ongoing. It’s a war of the governments and the corporations against their citizens, namely through the anti-terrorist legislation where you can arrest people, just on suspicion you-know because they are alleged terrorists and so on. That trend now is evolving towards a situation of a police state environment which affects the fundamental rights of citizens. And, that is happening in many countries in the West. Then, with regard to war within Western countries, you have the imposition of these deadly austerity measures. We see the situation in Greece. But it’s not only in Greece but it’s in countries like Spain and Italy, not to mention Iceland years back. That, in a sense, is a form of internal warfare. It’s based on debt conditionality. It’s the imposition of deadly macro-economic reforms, something that has been applied in third-world countries from the beginning of the 1980’s but which is now being applied in most Western countries leading to the demise of social programs, the destruction of employment, the creation of mass unemployment, the removal of all social safety nets and ultimately we are evolving at the national and global level from a situation of poverty to despair. People, particularly if we take countries like India where we see a whole range of suicides in the rural areas which are largely attributable to the crisis of agriculture and the imposition of genetically modified seeds where people commit suicide. In Africa, we see humanitarian disasters which are, so to speak, beyond poverty. We are not dealing with global poverty which was something I researched in the 1990’s. We’re dealing with despair, with the destruction of livelihood, the destruction of family life, deaths resulting from warfare, but also the deaths resulting from the process of the engineered destruction of economic activity where poor people no longer have the right to be poor. They’re marginalized and excluded. Simultaneously, we see, when looking at the realm of economics, we see the emergence of this upper-end luxury goods economy which is geared toward a small segment of the population. So there is increased polarization, social polarization taking place everywhere. You won’t see, if you are traveling in Southeast Asia, you won’t see the poor people. You’ll see avenues of hotel and condominiums and so on. So in a sense what is happening is a restructuring of the fabric of national societies where the hope of actually acceding to the status of an employee or worker within a factory may be a dream for many people who are simply marginalized. And that is a situation even happening in countries like Spain or Greece where up to 40% of the labor forces are unemployed.

JC – Well, we see very much that war on the poorest of the poor, even in the heartland of the empire itself with many cities trying to make feeding the homeless a crime of sorts in the United States. So, we see this being waged and more aggressively. Can we see any counter-balances toward globalization of war?

MC- Well, there are some very significant developments if we look at the situation that is in Greece or Spain where seemingly progressive governments have emerged. But I should caution in that regard because these seemingly progressive governments are often hijacked by corporate foundations which are funding them. It’s the same thing with regards to NGOs. They ultimately are caving into the demands of the creditors and the large financial institutions. I think what has happened in the course of the last 20-30 years is that the whole fabric of, particularly, Western society where you had trade unions, civil society organizations and governments that were putting forth a progressive social democracy agenda— this scenario, this landscape has been totally modified. The resistance to this corporate agenda—we’re talking about global capitalism—is no longer there. It’s fragmented. It’s co-opted. The trade union leaders go to Dubos and mingle with the operations, the corporate leaders so that through the process of co-optation we see a fragmentation of civil society into different areas—environmentalists on the one hand, anti-war on the other, women’s rights. Ultimately emerging from that is a mosaic of resistance rather than an organized structure which will challenge this project. Again, we are dealing with a military agenda. We are dealing with an economic agenda which is supported by the military agenda. We’re dealing with a process of destabilization of livelihood, so to speak. It’s the reproduction of real life that is at stake. I think what is extremely dangerous in this situation is that those who decide, particularly with regard to the use of what we might describe as WMDs including nuclear weapons, they believe their own propaganda. There is a whole current within the US Military. We’re talking about nuclear doctrine to the effect that nuclear weapons are “harmless to the civilian population”. And that refers to the tactical nuclear weapons, the mini-nukes. There are other areas where propaganda seems to take over the people who decide. And sometimes those people mean well. But they think by doing some things they are going to improve the livelihood of the world population. And so that when decision makers believe in the use of nuclear weapons as means to bring peace to the world, well we are in a very, very dangerous situation. Having consulted military documents I can that this is true. They say, well we have to use war as a peace making undertaking, as a means to instill democracy. They also say that nuclear weapons might be the avenue, or a certain type of nuclear weapon. I should warn people, although this is a very complex subject, that back in 2002 the US Senate cleared the use of tactical nuclear weapons to be used in the conventional war theatre. The whole notion that the Commander and Chief, namely POTUS could actually give the green light has been scrapped. These tactical nuclear weapons are part of what they call the military tool box. They can be used even by a 3-Star General in the region, or war region, and they are part of the arsenal of conventional warfare. All those dimensions, the economic, social and military dimensions coalesce and are sustained by an extensive apparatus of propaganda—I’m referring the mainstream media and the corporate media—which sustains the lies and ultimately controls what people think. This, I would say, is an inquisitorial environment. It’s much more devastating than the Spanish Inquisition. The Spanish Inquisition was also based on a big lie and it lasted for 300-400 years. But we are dealing with a media apparatus which turns realities upside down, presents the Western quest and military intervention as a peace making undertaking, which lies with regard to the casualties of war, which presents the war criminals as protagonists of human rights and so on and so forth. That, in itself, is the pinnacle of the system. Without the mainstream media and war propaganda this NWO agenda doesn’t have a leg to stand on. In other words, without these media lies, the military agenda and the economic agenda would collapse like a deck of cards. And that is why it is absolutely fundamental that within the realm of independent media and alternative media we wage a war against the mainstream media. In other words, it’s a war of ideas. It is an obligation on our part to support the truth and to use truth as a means of a weapon to undermine the legitimacy of this global economic and military agenda which is destroying humanity. It is global war. It is total war and it is destruction. And, it has a logic. It’s part of global capitalism. But, at this stage it is not a struggle against socialism. It is a struggle against national capitalism. In other words, it’s the global capital elites, mainly Anglo-American, dominated by Wall Street and City of London, the large financial centers against competing capitalist powers which, we might name them, Russian and China. China is not a communist country. China is a capitalist country, in fact, a very advanced capitalist country. And so is Iran. So, essentially what this war involves is world domination. It’s the establishment of a global economic and political system whereby countries worldwide would be subordinate to these global corporations and where national sovereignty under national capitalism would be undermined. The trade and investment agreements which have been negotiated behind closed doors are part of this agenda. In effect, they are the end-game of this agenda whereby global corporations undermine and destroy national and regional corporations. In other words, bankruptcy of the entire landscape and impose a global economic agenda throughout the world.

JC – Well, the battle between oligarchs for global control, I think, is nothing new to human history but the technologies that are available to accomplish that goal, I think, really do make this a much more important and decisive battle than it has ever been before. So, that is exactly and precisely that in the alternative media we do battle against these forces.

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  1. bcrabb says:

    [19:05 (streaming)] [18:16 (mp3 download)]
    CHOSSUDOVSKY: Now all those things, all those dimensions – the economic, the social, the military dimensions – coalesce and are sustained by an extensive apparatus of media propaganda. I’m referring to the mainstream media, the corporate media, which sustains the lies and ultimately controls what people think.

    And this is not – this, I would say is an inquisitorial environment. It’s much more devastating than the Spanish Inquisition. The Spanish Inquisition was also based on a Big Lie, and it lasted for three or four hundred years. But we are dealing with a media apparatus which turns realities upside down, presents the western quest, and military adventure, as a peace-making undertaking, which lies with regard to the casualties of war, which presents the war criminals as protagonists of human rights, and so on, so forth.

    And that, in itself, is the pinnacle of this system. It really – without the mainstream media, and war propaganda, this New World Order agenda doesn’t have a leg to stand on. In other words, without these media lies, the military agenda, the economic agenda would collapse like a deck of cards. And that is why it is absolutely fundamental that within the realm of independent media, and alternative media, we wage a war against the mainstream media. In other words, it’s a war of ideas. It is an obligation on our part to support the truth, and to use truth, as a means, as a weapon, to undermine the legitimacy of this global economic and military agenda which is destroying humanity.

    It is global war, it is total war, and it is destruction. And it has a logic, and it’s part of global capitalism. But at this stage it is not a struggle against socialism, but it is a struggle against national capitalism. In other words, it is the global capitalist elites, mainly Anglo-American, dominated by Wall Street and the city of London, the large financial centers, against competing capitalist powers, which, we might name them: Russia, China – China’s not a communist country, China is a capitalist country, in fact a very advanced capitalist country, and so is Iran.

    So that essentially, what this war involves is world domination, it’s the establishment of a global economic and political system whereby countries worldwide would be subordinated to these global corporations, and where national sovereignty under national capitalism would be undermined. And the trade and investment agreements which are being negotiated behind closed doors are part of this agenda. They’re part of this agenda, and in effect they are the end game of this agenda, whereby global corporations undermine and destroy national and regional corporations – in other words, bankruptcy of the entire landscape – and impose a global economic agenda throughout the world.

    CORBETT: Well the battle between oligarchs for global control I think is nothing new to human history but the technologies that are available to actually accomplish that goal really does make this a much more important and decisive battle than it has ever been before. So that is exactly, and precisely, why it is so important that in the alternative media we do battle against these forces, and that’s of course what you’re doing at globalresearch.ca. We will direct people once again to your recent book on the Globalization of War, which of course will be linked up in the show notes for this interview as well.

    Michel Chossudovsky, I think we’ll have to continue this conversation by looking at various aspects of this global warfare, but we’ll leave it there for today. Thank you very much for joining us on the program.

    CHOSSUDOVSKY: Delighted to be on the program

  2. garyegeberg says:

    Chossudovsky made one comment that didn’t register with me. He said that the propagandists really believe their own propaganda, namely that this NWO and multifaceted war on humanity has the objective of spreading democracy and that the use of, for example, tactical nuclear weapons has the objective of spreading peace. The media itself might believe the narrative, which seems quite plausible when factoring in that they simply print or mouth a script that is handed to them by the powers that shouldn’t be and that the American MSM are owned by five or so oligarchs. Also the military “minds” might believe the script, which makes sense to me because of the extremely narrow black and white, unquestioning worldview that is inherent to military endeavors and militarism itself. However, I don’t believe for a moment that the true powers behind the scenes, the corporate and global elites, believe that they are spreading democracy, and perhaps he isn’t implying that they are. Perhaps I misunderstood him.

    Surely the powers that shouldn’t be know well what they are pushing: American hegemony and fascist supra-capitalism that will benefit the very tip of the hierarchical pyramid at the expense of everyone else. We all know that the true powers and orchestrators of this multifaceted war of lies could care less about democracy or peace. Thus, I can’t imagine that the likes of Soros, the Rothchilds, and other diaboligarchs and soulless corporatists who compose and control the dominant propagandist narrative believe their own propaganda for a moment, and, again, perhaps Chossudovsky isn’t implying that they do.

    In any case, I hope, James, that you will have him on again soon. I am especially curious as to what he thinks about the possibility of some kind of an exchange of the larger nuclear weapons between the US and China and/or Russia, which is undoubtedly humanity’s biggest fear as the US continues its provocative encroachment and saber rattling. Are Russia and China really standing firm against American hegemony and is the threat of some kind of nuclear exchange higher than ever before or is the nuclear saber-rattling part of the script?

    • Sure, we can say the families of banking bloodlines probably don’t believe the humanitarian sophistry they finance and peddle, but on lower levels, you would definitely get certain delusional types who genuinely believe they are “good” or doing the functional equivalent of “the Lords work.” Not every member of the CFR is on the level of Brzezinski and not every member of the military believes in this (as James alluded to recently regarding the huge support Ron Paul received from the troops). There are many people in academia and other arenas who genuinely swallow this guff. A blind belief in the goodness of your side is often all that is needed to completely obliterate another society and people. It is often such blind beliefs in the goodness of one side or another that shields us from introspection and reflection on our own morality. I think those of us who subscribe to the alternative explanations of things sometimes see things too clearly, and forget that many people (even in the so called power structure) are often hopelessly wed into the matrix. Thus, any attempt to present some counter-narrative results in the “Agent Smiths” taking over them. I think this point from the movie itself was a metaphor with double meaning that symbolized the cognitive dissonance that occurs when people are confronted with certain counter-narratives that gives them a crack in their edifice of thought.

  3. NES says:

    James: Is there a transcribed version of this interview anywhere? SHOW NOTES under Globalresearch.ca leads me to the website but I find no transcribed version there. I’d like to send the interview to someone.

  4. KeithB says:

    To garyegeberg above:

    I do think that the corporatist/militarist elites actually DO believe they are spreading [their form of] “democracy”. But only the kind of “democracy” that they control – as in the US, the Ukraine, in some toppled African or Central American economy, etc.. If the oligarchs control the economy and the military(s), they can install whomever they want while creating an illusion of democracy for the goyim. A population is most lost when they believe that they are not lost at all; ignorance reinforced and even energized as Dr. Chossudovsky explains – by the mass media’s droning on endlessly about the [US] population’s ability and almost moral imperative to “spread the goodness” of their views of democracy to “help” others – even by war. And just like in the days of the inquisition, or nazi Germany, or … – further fueled by a need to “cleanse” the world in the name of God.

  5. captjrab says:

    Great interview James and Prof. Chossudovsky. Another feast for thought. Thanks.
    Whenever I randomly hear an Obama speech or an MSM newscast, I never feel like they are speaking to me. They’re just talking to themselves. Every institution of the establishment has not only been corrupted (from inception), but is in fact the inversion of the plattitudes they constantly spew forth. The indoctrinization and brainwashing of the masses all the way up to the “elites” is dense and reinforced by hundreds of billions of media dollars over lifetimes and generations. When presidents say “we Americans….freedom..democracy…world peace….blahbity blah…” It has the psychological effect of giving a little endorphin rush as a reward to the true believers who have succeeded in their pawnship of status quo management. It would take a serious act of courage for these people to regain their humanity. If they take any action on behalf of the truth, their Pavlovian system of rewards will be in peril.
    As for the living dead plutocrats and their minions, they may have the weapons, the wealth and the masses under their spell, but really, in the end, they have nothing that matters.

    • Knarf says:

      Completely share captrab’s sense of alienation from the NLP-babble in the mass media and “political sphere”. Babble and false flags are all they have, and their tricks are wearing thin.

      Now to the interview which I thank James for: I certainly “get it”, but there’s just one thing…I’m fascinated and admittedly surprised at Mr. Chossudovsky’s focus on nukes, of all things, in the current and future perpetual global war. He seems to believe such weapons in tactical form are on some kind of hair trigger, deployable at the whim of a field commander. That belief seems a bit odd frankly, in light of the fact that such things just don’t happen. Ever.

      I’m an old guy. Nuclear artillery rounds were demonstrated when I was a still a child. Tactical nukes in general are hardly anything new. By a series of events and circumstances far too convoluted to describe here, I know there are crushing if not prohibitive constraints on their use.

      For the same reasons, I know strategic nukes are simply unusable whatsoever. Not those of the US, or Russia, or France, or any country which pretends to have such a capability. The perception that nations retain such a potential destructive threat is promulgated purely for political and psychological purposes.

      In support of my contention, if anyone pays close attention they will ascertain that the “nuclear military”, particularly that which is part of the US Air Force, is not the domain of high profile careers, and in fact has generated more than its share of scandalous stories stemming from bungling and neglect. It’s as if many of those with command responsibility for our so-called strategic nuclear deterrent, appreciate that they’re stuck in a backwater program, if not an outright farce.

      In his focus on ancient and useless weapons of indiscriminate destruction, Mr. Chossudovsky misses what is the real military game changer NOW and in the very near future: Precision-kill robotics, both in human-in-loop forms and autonomous systems.

      A drone over Pakistan which “collaterally” wipes out a wedding or funeral procession for the unstated purpose of manufacturing more “terrorists” (grist for the WOT mill) has a human-in-the-loop. A swarm of mini-drones with a “kill list” and facial/biometric recognition programming is an autonomous assassination system once set loose, though of course we would suppose humans at some point did the selecting of the lucky names on the list. For now, at least. As surveillance becomes more pervasive and threat assessment becomes ever more reduced to an algorithm, humans may end up with no role to play in the kill chain, other than providing the splat at the end.

  6. garyegeberg says:

    I appreciate the thoughts of other posters who directly or indirectly responded to my comments. I was thinking that those at the higher levels knew what the game was about, and it never dawned on me that they could actually be true believers in the propaganda. So perhaps someone like Cheney actually believed the nonsense that he spouted while VP and continues to be a believer. I still find that hard to believe, but I suppose if he has been inundated, marinated, in that mindset for decades and his circles consist of those who think and believe the same way…

    I remember hearing once that people don’t come to their religious beliefs through rationality. If I think of this propaganda and dominant narrative as a type of religious belief, it then makes more sense that someone like Cheney and other elites might actually believe the script, but not because it is rational or humane.

  7. garyegeberg says:

    Knarf, the weapons you speak of are, no doubt, either a reality or will be a reality all too soon; however, I don’t share your confidence about the nukes, especially since nuclear policy was revised after 9/11 to include a first strike. I fear that at the very least a false flag nuclear event is quite possible, which will then call for nuclear retaliation.

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